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Old 01-12-2013, 02:55   #16
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

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Originally Posted by sthomper View Post
is there a device on boats that allows one to get a full nights sleep (other than gps guidance)????

i was asking this forum not ferry captains per se. give them a ring for eh?
Matey, I think your question has been fully answered although another "device" could be sleeping tablets. They are know to help one get a good nights sleep.

Just what is your background around boats and do you want to sail with crew or single-hand?
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:11   #17
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Okay my turn...
When I sail with crew on deliveries they are usually inexperienced with a long list of BS experience... result is I'm awake 18-20hrs a day.. and the few hours I do get are interspersed with either being woken by a crew member uncertain about some lights or by the boat behaving in a manner it should not.. eg going through the Torres Straits when after 1/2 an hour below I was woken by the boat heeling over... shot up to find the on watch crew had sat in the skippers chair and in the process had kicked of the power for the helm and the boat had rounded up into the wind and was hurtling towards reefs... got her back on course with 200yds to spare..
Solo I go to bed when I'm tired.. could be anytime day or night... usually wake every hour or so and have a look around.. I prefer sleeping at night as ships are visible so much further away than in daytime... something I know for a fact since AIS.. you can spot a ship upto 12 miles away at night... in daylight its around 5-6 miles as the bridge deck appears over the horizon as a smudge which the less experienced will miss.
As for helming devices... I do not like wind vanes for the simple reason that they changes course with every wind shift so if your asleep you are totally unaware you have gone of course...
An electric tiller pilot however will hold course as long as possible and you'd be amazed how effective flogging sails are at waking one up
Do what suits your needs and fears... we're all different and what works for me will not necessarily work for someone else..
PS: Then there's always the old favourite of the solo sailor.. Heave to.. cook supper.. have a Sundowner and get your head down till the morning
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:45   #18
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

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Originally Posted by sthomper View Post
is there a device on boats that allows one to get a full nights sleep. can a windvane keep a boat on course if say the wind changes direction?? is there a nother type of device as well?? if you have to specualate or lie dont respond.
I speculate you'll die if you have lots of full nights asleep at sea. And that ain't no lie!


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Old 01-12-2013, 10:35   #19
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

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Originally Posted by sthomper View Post
is there a device on boats that allows one to get a full nights sleep (other than gps guidance)????

i was asking this forum not ferry captains per se. give them a ring for eh?
It's called an "anchor". Usually that works.

Otherwise, there is no device that will substitute for somebody on watch. There are devices that can improve your odds, such as radar with a watch-area alarm, AIS, radar reflectors (active and passive), radar detectors, etc. Some software has depth alarms, wind-shift, wind-speed, and off-course alarms. None of this will prevent you from running into another boat, or log, or whatever.

Once you are on the high sea, out of the shipping approaches, you can probably catch a few hours of sleep, or even a full eight hours, without anything bad happening. But make no mistake, you are playing the odds.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:36   #20
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

One of the basic rules of the sea and safe navigation is to have an alert responsible crew on watch duty at all times. The fact that single hand sailors ignore this rule of seamanship is no excuse it is in reality a mater of gross negligence. It is like driving a car at > 75 MPH on a 60 MPH road. Yes a lot of people do these irresponsible things (part of the down side of human nature) and get away with it on the road and on the water it"s still wrong on both a practical and moral basis. And people reading these post should be made aware of that fact.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:44   #21
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One of the basic rules of the sea and safe navigation is to have an alert responsible crew on watch duty at all times. The fact that single hand sailors ignore this rule of seamanship is no excuse it is in reality a mater of gross negligence. It is like driving a car at > 75 MPH on a 60 MPH road. Yes a lot of people do these irresponsible things (part of the down side of human nature) and get away with it on the road and on the water it"s still wrong on both a practical and moral basis. And people reading these post should be made aware of that fact.
As a bluewater singlehander I think that's a bit on the sensationalist side. Most others I've met stay alert on coastal passages. Off the continent shelf traffic is sparce, I think the majority of solo boats now have ais and many radar, between these 2 devices the vast majority of other vessels will be detected and an alarm sounded. Almost always before the other vessel is in sight. It's certainly not risk free but with forethought and technology the risks can be reduced to a minimum. I would put the risk of personal injury with no one to help out much higher than collision.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:55   #22
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pirate Re: Sleeping at Sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
One of the basic rules of the sea and safe navigation is to have an alert responsible crew on watch duty at all times. The fact that single hand sailors ignore this rule of seamanship is no excuse it is in reality a mater of gross negligence. It is like driving a car at > 75 MPH on a 60 MPH road. Yes a lot of people do these irresponsible things (part of the down side of human nature) and get away with it on the road and on the water it"s still wrong on both a practical and moral basis. And people reading these post should be made aware of that fact.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:56   #23
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pirate Re: Sleeping at Sea

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I speculate you'll die if you have lots of full nights asleep at sea. And that ain't no lie!


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Old 01-12-2013, 13:11   #24
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

I think I am going to train my dog to stay up to do the night watch . If he prefers day watch, I will do the nite watch. I think the dog must be better than any human crews. He does not talk back, has a great listening skills, sharp nose, and bark loudly.

Who needs a stinky crew. LOL
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Old 01-12-2013, 13:17   #25
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

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Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
One of the basic rules of the sea and safe navigation is to have an alert responsible crew on watch duty at all times. The fact that single hand sailors ignore this rule of seamanship is no excuse it is in reality a mater of gross negligence. It is like driving a car at > 75 MPH on a 60 MPH road. Yes a lot of people do these irresponsible things (part of the down side of human nature) and get away with it on the road and on the water it"s still wrong on both a practical and moral basis. And people reading these post should be made aware of that fact.
I doubt this will change my mind of solo sailing across the pond. I intend to live forever. There are far more dangerous things I do than sailing solo.
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Old 01-12-2013, 17:16   #26
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

Well I certainly don't expect to change the ways of single handed ocean crossing sailors nor speeders or alcoholics. But sailing without a proper watch is wrong. Certainly when a ship hits one of these sleeping single hander daredevils if they survive the first cry out of their moths would no doubt be that the ship was not keeping a proper watch. It matters not that a thousand or less contributors of this site think otherwise still wrong. I know I might as well go into a bar and tell people why getting plastered is wrong but this is a public site read by newbees and innocents and somebody should be pointing out that purposefully piloting a boat blind is an act of negligence and that is so whether the singlehanders like it or not..
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Old 01-12-2013, 17:57   #27
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

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Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
Well I certainly don't expect to change the ways of single handed ocean crossing sailors nor speeders or alcoholics. But sailing without a proper watch is wrong. Certainly when a ship hits one of these sleeping single hander daredevils if they survive the first cry out of their moths would no doubt be that the ship was not keeping a proper watch. It matters not that a thousand or less contributors of this site think otherwise still wrong. I know I might as well go into a bar and tell people why getting plastered is wrong but this is a public site read by newbees and innocents and somebody should be pointing out that purposefully piloting a boat blind is an act of negligence and that is so whether the singlehanders like it or not..
Agreed that it is an act of negligence but is it wrong? Wrong in what way, morally, ethically, legally?

Morally or ethically depends on one's own morals and ethics and just as mine should not dictate yours, so yours should not dictate mine.

Legally almost certainly wrong but lets look a bit deeper. There are many laws in the books, some are real crazy; the crazy ones never (or rarely) get enforced.

Legally I am not suggesting operating a vessel while asleep is crazy rule but it is however a rule that rarely gets enforced so we must wonder why that is so.

I suggest because it isn't a big issue out there in the real world oceans, small boats single handing and big ships. The victim of this rare crime is usually the perpetrator.

Let me clear, I am not suggesting it is best practice but I acknowledge it is a common practice and while illegal, causes very few issues.

Perhaps a bit like doing 61.5 MPH in a 60 zone

Disclaimer: I'm biassed as I have done both of the above
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Old 01-12-2013, 18:18   #28
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

I use MarkJ watch routine too. During the midnight -0400 watch, i'll set a timer for 15 minutes in case I doze off. I like to read in the cockpit if possible and can become a little sleepy, the timer works good. Of course, this is when we are way off shore and in deep water.
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Old 01-12-2013, 19:15   #29
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

Boatman hit the nail on the head concerning visibility. (Not talking coastal here). A vessel (lights) will be noticed at a far greater distance at night than in the day time. If you have a masthead nav light or even an all around white, you will be spotted at a greater distance at night,than a typically white boat with white sails will be spotted in the day time. Away from shore the ocean is a very dark place at night, and anything unusual (such as a light) will catch the eyes attention pretty quick. On my first long passage ,2400 miles, I only saw one ship, and that was the first evening out of Soccoro Island. It was 30 years later that I noticed that the great circle route from Panama to Hawaii, passed just south of Soccoro. Even with 2 of us, we sometimes went a couple of hours between waking, so maybe I missed some traffic, but the Pacific is a big lonely ocean. A few years later I did my first passages in the Atlantic, and was horrified at the amount of traffic. I was never comfortable without someone on watch after that. Now with AIS and small boat radar, I think I could single hand away from shore in the Pacific without getting an ulcer, but the East Coast/Bermuda/Virgins route would scare me to death. Just my 2 cents worth. ______Grant.
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Old 01-12-2013, 19:55   #30
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Re: Sleeping at Sea

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As a bluewater singlehander I think that's a bit on the sensationalist side. Most others I've met stay alert on coastal passages. Off the continent shelf traffic is sparce, I think the majority of solo boats now have ais and many radar, between these 2 devices the vast majority of other vessels will be detected and an alarm sounded. Almost always before the other vessel is in sight. It's certainly not risk free but with forethought and technology the risks can be reduced to a minimum. I would put the risk of personal injury with no one to help out much higher than collision.
I agree, but would add that incompetent crew is worse than none. Kinda back to Boatmans point. Similar experiences.
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