Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-11-2009, 14:01   #16
Registered User
 
Connemara's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Mirage 27 in Toronto; Wright 10 in Auckland
Posts: 671
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmarcet View Post
but the weather looks like it might be a bit too much for my little boat, 20 knot winds with 5-7 foot seas. That sounds kind of risky in such a small boat.
It's not the boat so much as the sailor -- you need more experience before you're going to happy in 20 knots and that sea state.

My boat -- 27 feet of fantastic plastic -- will do just fine in up to 30. But I start to reef at 15, first the genny, and then the main. At 20 knots, I have a reef in both (that is I have the first reef in the main and the genny rolled in about a third).

With the sails like that, Connemara heels about 15 degrees in 20 knots and zips along at 6plus. And it's comfortable to sail singlehanded ... no wrestling with the wheel. A bit bouncy in the sea state you mention, but still not scary.

Dunno if you have reef points in your main and if you have any way to shorten sail on the jib. If not, I'd sit this one out ... it's not gonna be fun to be out there alone.

But in the long run, you should be able to take 20 in your stride.

Connemara
__________________

__________________
Connemara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-2009, 00:40   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
kcmarcet

Here is a page out of a "Sailing 101" booklet that I'm working on. It may come in handy for reference.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	page13.jpg
Views:	124
Size:	383.4 KB
ID:	11322  
__________________

__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-2009, 15:21   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Too late to edit

I should have added these next pages to make it more relevant.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	page15.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	291.6 KB
ID:	11355   Click image for larger version

Name:	page16.jpg
Views:	99
Size:	372.5 KB
ID:	11357  

__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-11-2009, 16:46   #19
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Good stuff Del. Although just a thought. The two icons on the first page for in irons actually look like the boats have tacked and are close hauled on opposite tacks. You might consider a true head to wind icon with luffing sails.

The hardest part of explaining sailing is understanding how the boat goes upwind. It starts with an understanding of being luffed up. When I take new people out the only thing I explain, usually with a diagram, is the 90 degree "no sail" zone. Then we go out, close haul and practice heading up until the sail luffs and then falling off until we are sailing again.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2009, 01:12   #20
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
A really great book is "Start Sailing Right!"
No one has mentioned that in really light winds the sheet, outhaul and even the halyard should be eased a bit to put a nice belly in your sail which gives your sail more power. When the wind starts to pick up to about 10 then start hardening up on the sail again. Trust what others are saying about using your jib. Your boat won't want to tack well nor point well unless you have the jib helping you.
I've put together a Sailing 101 as Delmarrey has and I think Ashoresailingschool has one too. Most all is a repeat of what you'd find in most well done sailing books like "Start Sailing Right" or "Royce's Sailing Illustrated." Royce being much more comprehensive.
Buy a book. You'll love it now that you have a bit of experience.
Congratulations on a great 2nd sail. You are already learning a whole bunch.
regards,
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2009, 03:51   #21
Registered User
 
Eleven's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southampton UK
Boat: Jaguar 22 mono called Arfur.
Posts: 1,220
Images: 3
Using the Jib. Boats are designed to be balanced when being blown sideways.
The keel is in the middle, dragging in the water, the fore and aft sail area is balanced around that, the small jib a long way forwards, the mainsail bigger but close in to the keel.
That balances the boat so little rudder is needed to steer a straight course.
Boat speed through the water then allows the keel to act like a wing stopping the sideways movement pretty much, until the boat heels, spilling some of the forces and allowing the boat to slide sideways again. Each boat has it's own idea on best angle of heel, and each sail set has it's own mind too. Reefing is reducing area to get the best heel angle or comfort (dry boat).
Tacking is about running near the edge of sailing into the wind, sails full and just fluttering on the back edge, turn into wind smoothly, pull the jib sheet through, collect the boat and away you go again.
For a beginner it's much much easier to take a crew with you. Do one job each. Rudder or sails. The skipper decides when to tack and calls 'ready about'. Both check that they are ready to go about. Helm checks 'No other boats in the area, safe to turn, wind and waves ok.' Sail checks sheets are ready, coils are not going to snag anyones ankles, the wind is good with no gusts coming in soon (fluffy water/dark clouds etc). Crew reply 'ready'.
Skipper calls 'going about' and Helm begins the turn smoothly, Sail centres the traveller on the main and pulls it in tight and locks it.
Helm tightens the turn as the sails flutter, Sail holds the jib as it was until the wind is pushing it past the mast, then pulls it through as the main swings across.
Two seconds later and it's tidy up, get the course to the wind right and balance the sails for the new course. Helm has to get the tell tales streaming level on both sides of the sails asking the Sail to trim so both are right together. Main should be tightened so the traces off the back edge flutter gently when the jib tell tales are just right.
Now, for a beginner to do all that in five seconds is near impossible. But after a few clean tacks it all begins to make sense and Sail can be thrown overboard, or set to swabbing the decks until it all goes wrong again. Best thing of all is talking about what went wrong, not what went right.
I do expect a lot of stick from experienced sailors but this is how I learnt.
__________________
Ex Prout 31 Sailor, Now it's a 22ft Jaguar called 'Arfur' here in sunny Southampton, UK.
A few places left in Quayside Marina and Kemps Marina.
Eleven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2009, 14:36   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Although just a thought. The two icons on the first page for in irons actually look like the boats have tacked and are close hauled on opposite tacks. You might consider a true head to wind icon with luffing sails.
Good idea! I may just exclude the two tacking boats (due to space) and add one that miss stays and gone into irons.

For small boats it can be really frustrating in irons, once they point straight into the wind (irons) the only way to get out is back the main or start paddling.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2009, 18:00   #23
Registered User
 
Philsboat's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brockville,Ont.
Boat: Mirage 25 "Garfield"
Posts: 137
I like to sail with just the main when I am singlehanding and I find that if I ease the outhaul and tighten the halyard it brings the center of effort forward and the boat sails quite well as long as I don't sheet the main in much past the lifelines.It's not as fast as main and jib but it's effortless as all I have to do is steer and adjust the mainsheet for different points of sail.The trick is to put lot's of power in the main to make up for the lack of a jib.

Phil
__________________
Philsboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2009, 10:27   #24
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philsboat View Post
I like to sail with just the main when I am singlehanding and I find that if I ease the outhaul and tighten the halyard it brings the center of effort forward and the boat sails quite well as long as I don't sheet the main in much past the lifelines.It's not as fast as main and jib but it's effortless as all I have to do is steer and adjust the mainsheet for different points of sail.The trick is to put lot's of power in the main to make up for the lack of a jib.

Phil
And that's the secret to speed, the position of the sails. As the boat goes faster the tighter one can bring in the tension. By sailing main alone one can not get the full potential of the hull and has to compensate the aerodynamics of the sail.

Once I'm up to hull speed I can bring my main across the centerline and pull in the genoa right up to the cabin. As long as I don't heel over more then 25º she's sailing as fast as she'll ever go on a close haul.

But I actually find I can sail faster on a close reach. At times I'll exceed hull speed but I still reach the destination (straight up wind) sooner when it's a close haul rather then a close reach due the angles, providing I don't pinch it too much.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2009, 17:32   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SW Florida U.S.A
Boat: none(fornow)
Posts: 192
Another day on the water!

Well I just got home a couple of hours ago from another day on the water. Weather wise it was pretty similar the the last day out. The marine forecast for for 5 knot winds. It seemed about the same as the other day. Today I actually used the jib and successfully turned through the wind a couple of time. But then a couple of times I got stuck in irons again. It seemed like my speed had much to do with my success in turning through the wind. To me it seemed like I was able to make the turn when my speed was up over 2 knots(I got it up to 3.5 mph, better than last time with just the main)So I guess speed has much to do with tacking. I almost can't wait to get out on a day with 10 knot winds, that should be fun.
__________________
kcmarcet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2009, 17:55   #26
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Seems you are learning that enough speed to get through head to wind is key. Sometimes you have to delay the tack if you are in a lull until you have sufficient boat speed. You will also be able to look at the water upwind and ahead to see the "dead" spots and tack earlier.

Although once you can see the telltales of the wind on the water you will realize that the wind is never where the boat is and is always coming directly from where you want to go - LOL...
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2009, 18:13   #27
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Seems you are learning that enough speed to get through head to wind is key. Sometimes you have to delay the tack if you are in a lull until you have sufficient boat speed. You will also be able to look at the water upwind and ahead to see the "dead" spots and tack earlier.

Although once you can see the telltales of the wind on the water you will realize that the wind is never where the boat is and is always coming directly from where you want to go - LOL...
Which brings up the next two pages of my booklet.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	page17.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	411.0 KB
ID:	11387   Click image for larger version

Name:	page18.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	375.1 KB
ID:	11388  

__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2009, 18:51   #28
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Oh gosh. Ten knots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmarcet View Post
I almost can't wait to get out on a day with 10 knot winds, that should be fun.
I'm enjoying your learning curve.

At 0200h last night we had 26 knots true gusting 32. At that point the question is: How can I keep this boat from tacking?

Yeah. Wind helps. As does the jib.

Keep sailing.
__________________

__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How Far Can You Plan on Sailing in a Day? Steelshooter General Sailing Forum 17 26-10-2009 15:57
3 day sailing in Taha'a foucault76 Pacific & South China Sea 9 06-11-2008 07:43
Our first big day of sailing! Woodsong Monohull Sailboats 5 03-06-2008 20:30
Sailing away for a Dollar a day???!! David_Old_Jersey Boat Ownership & Making a Living 111 22-05-2008 06:56
Questions About Sailing kaoskorruption General Sailing Forum 10 30-03-2008 21:37



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:37.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.