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Old 24-09-2015, 18:49   #46
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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Originally Posted by Arthur Garfield View Post
Here's a link with cctv of abduction: Hunt underway for hostages including 2 Canadians abducted in Philippines | Daily Mail Online

Oh,and by the way-the olde broken bottle shards in cement wall top has been around in France for at least a hundred years.
But yes-the depth of poverty is just crushing and certainly not unavoidable in this age.Corruption,disgusting greed animal people of wealth


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I saw this type wall in Miami 40 years ago. They are still made there.
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Old 25-09-2015, 06:32   #47
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

That is the real pity. So many worked so hard so long to get Samal accepted as being the safe place option...with a place to haul out too. Sitting here deep into the harbor of Puerto Princesa Bay doesn't seem as safe now as it did before this.

All around the Philippines it is clear by the number and arming of guards that anything of high value has to be protected. Every tiny money changer has a fully armed guard and money changers are behind strong doors.

Yet we Westerners are just sitting unguarded cash machines ready to be plucked whenever the bomb making budget is low. Why would any marina so close to Mindano not think this would happen? Why were coast guard so hard to reach? Why isnt there a coast guard boat right on site?

I really hope these sailors and their family under no circumstance make any payout. All that money does is pay to keep the cycle of violence going. More sailors are captured, businesses suffer, tourism goes down, and the poverty of the common person goes up.

How many will begin to lose their jobs as sailors stop going to Samal to do sailboat repairs?
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Old 25-09-2015, 08:41   #48
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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........All around the Philippines it is clear by the number and arming of guards that anything of high value has to be protected. Every tiny money changer has a fully armed guard and money changers are behind strong doors.

Yet we Westerners are just sitting unguarded cash machines ready to be plucked .........
To true and not only in the PHILIPPINES.

This is where every wealthy Filipino realizes that he can be murdered for having Php10k in his pocket ($46) and is proactive to make that attempt difficult

Yet many foreigners flash huge wads around oblivious to the risk and temptation.

In Puerto Galera, the resident expats started and support a gun club and firing range.
http://www.puertogalerarange.com/

So were able thru their wives, girlfriends, staff etc.. to have legal access, transport and practice with fire arms.

Club members even have regular friendly competitions against the local military and police and the business has been successful with tourists... (The Koreans just love to rent the AK-47s)

The practical upside to this is that resident expat families are no longer considered easy targets and are mostly left alone by the criminal element.

By forming and joining gun clubs, foreigners can have access to self protection and change the perception of soft targets.

Perhaps this is something Samal Marina should now consider with the support and participation of affluent locals

http://www.puertogalerarange.com/club.shtml
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Old 25-09-2015, 08:55   #49
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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To true and not only in the PHILIPPINES.

This is where every wealthy Filipino realizes that he can be murdered for having Php10k in his pocket ($46) and is proactive to make that attempt difficult

Yet many foreigners flash huge wads around oblivious to the risk and temptation.

In Puerto Galera, the resident expats started and support a gun club and firing range.
Puerto Galera Shooting Range - Recreational Range Shooting in the Philippines

So were able thru their wives, girlfriends, staff etc.. to have legal access, transport and practice with fire arms.

Club members even have regular friendly competitions against the local military and police and the business has been successful with tourists... (The Koreans just love to rent the AK-47s)

The practical upside to this is that resident expat families are no longer considered easy targets and are mostly left alone by the criminal element.

By forming and joining gun clubs, foreigners can have access to self protection and change the perception of soft targets.

Perhaps this is something Samal Marina should now consider and with the support and participation of affluent locals

Puerto Galera Shooting Range - Puerto Galera Range Group and Gun Club
Pelagic -- if you know -- what is the official or unofficial view of the relevant authorities in these areas of the Phillipines when it comes to foreign cruisers having (properly declared) firearms onboard?
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Old 25-09-2015, 09:21   #50
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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Pelagic -- if you know -- what is the official or unofficial view of the relevant authorities in these areas of the Phillipines when it comes to foreign cruisers having (properly declared) firearms onboard?
A loaded question that is so dependant on where you are/where you are going/how they are stored/connected Filipinos as crew/ present risk assessment and who you ask?

Officially, declaring fire arms normally means that they are held ashore until you clear out, but that can often be discretionary.

If you are not transient, then first joining an accepted gun club allows you more flexibility.
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Old 25-09-2015, 09:29   #51
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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A loaded question that is so dependant on where you are/where you are going/how they are stored/connected Filipinos as crew/ present risk assessment and who you ask?

Officially, declaring fire arms normally means that they are held ashore until you clear out, but that can often be discretionary.

If you are not transient, then first joining an accepted gun club allows you more flexibility.
OK, got it. Probably not so different from most other parts of the world outside the US & Bahamas.
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Old 25-09-2015, 09:38   #52
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Given the nature and method of the attack, 11+ men with AK47s, armed resistance as a late response would have guaranteed multiple deaths.
Sometimes, hope has to replace action. The situation has to be evaluated to make the best outcome for the circumstances.
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Old 25-09-2015, 09:44   #53
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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Given the nature and method of the attack, 11+ men with AK47s, armed resistance as a late response would have guaranteed multiple deaths.
Sometimes, hope has to replace action. The situation has to be evaluated to make the best outcome for the circumstances.
Yes, hope, and in this case jumping overboard before the attackers could get to them!
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Old 25-09-2015, 13:53   #54
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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Given the nature and method of the attack, 11+ men with AK47s, armed resistance as a late response would have guaranteed multiple deaths.
Sometimes, hope has to replace action. The situation has to be evaluated to make the best outcome for the circumstances.
I agree with that point.

This case has caused me to think about "what ifs" and how a community of boaters might respond, as individuals or as a group.

Put another way:

1. If your boat (this means anyone reading this) was a few slips down from the first assault on a neighboring boat, and it was clear to you that there were multiple assailants with weapons (machetes, knives, guns, rifles, AK47s), what would you do?

2. What would you do if you were unarmed?

3. What would you do if you did have a single gun of some type (a handgun)?

Anyone care to answer those questions?

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When adding one gun to the situation may cause a deadly escalation.

So often on this forum, the "pro gun" sailors state they would fight. While I can understand that POV, I also see how in a case such as this one, where there were 11 armed assailants who appeared determined to "capture" people (not kill them) it would possibly have led to immediate killings.

I am neither a pacifist nor a hostile person. If I were alone on a boat (or with family) and some intruder came aboard and threatened us, and I felt that diplomacy and talk or giving them something of material value would not work, I would defend myself/us with whatever I had handy. I think many would. But, this usually assumes there is some equitable force (one assailant vs. one sailor).

In this case, there were 11 organized assailants and they were armed with M-16 rifles and other weapons.

I know how to shoot pistols and rifles well, but bringing a single handgun (if you had one with you on your boat) to a fight with 11 armed men, some of whom possess automatic rifles, does present a problem, where force would be escalated to more deadly use of the weapons the assailants have. In other words, it could start a massacre.

In the reports of the incident, I find it interesting that NO assailant seems to have fired a weapon at all. Presumably, their intent was to capture a few live hostages. Luckily, so far, no one was hurt or killed.

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Here is something I found interesting in the Globe's report:
Dressed in T-shirts and their faces uncovered, the gunmen at the marina descended on the outermost yacht on each of the two docks, barging in and pulling out two couples.

From one boat came American Steven Tripp and his Japanese wife Kazuko Shibata-Tripp. From the other came Canadian Robert Hall and his Filipina girlfriend, a woman the Associated Press identified as Teresita Flor.

The screams of those under attack brought others running. Some were stopped by the assailants, who pointed guns at them and threatened to shoot.

Others got closer, including Kjartan Sekkingstad, a Norwegian who lived in Vancouver before sailing to Asia, and John Ridsdel, a semi-retired Canadian mining executive.

According to police and witnesses, the two men sought to help the Tripps, who fought off the gunmen and managed to escape, bruised and shaken.

Mr. Ridsdel and Mr. Sekkingstad were then taken captive with Mr. Hall and Ms. Flor, leaving behind a shaken group of yachters who thought they had found paradise on the Island Garden City of Samal.

They dont get any typhoons people are very nice, its a nice area, said one of the foreign yachters who witnessed the scene, but asked not to be identified for fear of being targeted.

Though police said the attack appeared targeted, the yachter said the gunmen simply barged on to the two most accessible yachts.
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Old 25-09-2015, 14:32   #55
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

A gun club is a valid suggestion. This was no random act. Plans to utilize money expected from this operation will lead to more violence. We should not forget the lives and families of 44 police officers killed just last year shortly after the two Germans were realized.

When sailing do we not maintain 24 hr watches to try and spot a tiny vessel that may ding our paint job? Do we not set high resolution GPS that 24 hr will tell us the second we are 0.04 instead of 0.03 nm from anchorage?

It is my contention that had the Germans made no payout, had a guard been posted 24/7 with an active working communication to forces that could respond instantly, had it been made clear no money would be paid out, that planners would not have picked this marina and made this assault.

The one good thing about Puerto Princesa is the very large bay with Coast Guard 24hrs at the entrance. How good they are and whether they actually answer a channel 16 call at 2 am is unknown. It is however, a very long way to Sulu Sulu and Mindano.

I believe it is time we begin making demands that the Coast Guard demonstates it is more than an organization in name only.

It should be no surprise however that we should expect little competence from a country where we see most coast guard emergency vessels parked on top of trailers. Hopefully, the one here is in the water. I need to check, and I will be asking our local office for their exact procedures, staff levels, and fire power.

I will be discussing with other sailors here going on 24 hour watches of our own. Just shining a flashlight on each passing fishing vessel would be a reminder that we are actually awake, watching, and have the ability to call coast guard.
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Old 25-09-2015, 14:51   #56
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

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I really hope these sailors and their family under no circumstance make any payout. All that money does is pay to keep the cycle of violence going. More sailors are captured, businesses suffer, tourism goes down, and the poverty of the common person goes up.

How many will begin to lose their jobs as sailors stop going to Samal to do sailboat repairs?
Agreed.

More often than not, the payoffs are "spread around", meaning the local authorities will get a nice party and maybe some new office furniture, the school will get new nets on the BB court, barangay captain is passing around tshirts prior to the election, etc. The incentive of long term employment is overshadowed by some nice lechon...
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Old 25-09-2015, 16:09   #57
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

RokNRich

Yes and they buy girl scout cookies, plant flowers, have tea parties, and eat cucumber sandwiches with the crust cut off. You may know local words like lechon, however, I think you have not seen the shopping list.

People will die because of this incident. Maybe next week, a month, year or few years. I squarely blame the German government for allowing German sailors to demonstrate that some sailors have no consideration for the lives of others.

I was told this site is monitored by the people that planned the last attack. They should recall my statements and intentions if I am ever threatened or injured. They still hold.
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Old 26-09-2015, 19:31   #58
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

News just posted that the hostages taken in Samal are most likely in Sulu. They found the boat almost 500 km from Samal with a breached hull and no one found. The authorities possibly think that Abu Sayyaf involved. Who knows where they have stashed the hostages at this point. Time will tell what the political or money angles are.


Steady Hand in answer to your question when faced with the threat of 11 men with automatic weapons you have only one defense....run like hell...jump over the side and swim as far away under water as you can and pray. Anyone who is ignorant enough to think they can survive a shootout with automatic rifles is dead. Yes, you might get lucky and cap one or two of them. Once the others see your gun fire they will just point and spray everything in that proximity. Your boat and other boats will look like swiss cheese factory. Now they will not just be hostage takers...they will be pissed off hombres that one of their own brothers was hit or killed...shizzle is on.


To the poster who menaced the German hostage takers in words...sir, I politely suggest to you, that if they come for you...and chances are pretty slim because they know how brave and well armed you are...try not to get everyone killed around you. Unless you are Rambo, Ironman, or one of the super vigilantes your bravado is admired but ill advised when 11 men with automatic rifles that can fire a clip of 30 bullets in about 5 seconds with an average velocity of over 2000 feet a second and can travel 300 yards before they drop an inch or two times 11 men doing the same thing at the same time in your direction. As the bullets pass through you and your loved ones, friends, and other peoples boats...you might take pause to consider the odds of survival and retreat before many people are hurt or killed because of your sense of " no one lays a hand on me" attitude. It is different if one guy is boarding your boat and trying to come down the companionway and you are sure that it isn't some drunk who got on the wrong catamaran cause all the French cats look the same (smile)...But when the shizzle is on and screaming and yelling by many people...your best plan of action would always be to retreat in the face of a markedly superior force. We boaters are not military personal. What would happen, sir, if in the gunfight you capped innocent bystanders when they find out it was you firing on the hostages and hostage takers? It is just not a simple thing to say what someone would do if confronted with this scenario. I tell you what I would do...I try and stay away from areas such as southern Philippines due to this very problem. There are just too many other places on this planet covered by 70 percent ocean to be messing around in areas of such danger. Just my single opinion...
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Old 26-09-2015, 20:37   #59
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Alan,

I read some more reportage on the incident this morning.

Some had conflicting information. One said the location (general location) of the hostages was known, another said the communist group was not responsible (as suspected in some earlier reports).

I also noticed that the Davao Mayor Duterte had offered himself to take the place of the hostages, but this was refused by the Philippine National Government. Of course this was probably a political PR gesture, as Duterte is being positioned to run for national president.

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What to do?

Regarding "What to do" in a similar situation, I agree with much of what you said.

Unarmed boaters are no match for 11 armed and organized men with automatic rifles.

So, how to respond if you were in a neighboring boat in the marina or anchorage?

Very tough call. Not many options that don't involve increasing the risk of death for someone.

Everyone will have to make that decision for themselves, based on their resources and the situation. But, given the scenario we see in this case, where the armed men approached a marina, full of occupied boats...

Given that your boat may be next (you might not have much time to respond), and assuming there is no easy way to escape using your own boat (tied up, too exposed, no where to go, can't outrun the aggressors), it seems to me that the best option is to lock down your boat, lights off, be silent, do anything to delay your capture (jumping over the side and swimming away in the dark or hiding below the boat), or if possible, do the following: call the proper authorities for help.

It could be as simple as raising an alarm ASAP to the proper authorities and making radio or cell or sat phone calls immediately to the local Police, Coast Guard, or other security groups. That plus immediate calls to anyone in the expat's own country authority (consul, embassy, etc.). The goal? Get the message out to people who DO have the resources to respond, notifying them of the number of people involved, location, descriptions, transportation they used, etc.
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Old 26-09-2015, 20:46   #60
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Re: Pirate attack Phillipines ?

Going to Southern Php as a foreigner yachty is asking for trouble pure and simple. I am married to a wonderful Luzon Phillipina and she will not allow us to sail to Southern Php whatsoever

This kidnapping is an inside job, with the locals helping to scouts for possible targets. Mindano is and always will be a problem with radicals looking for making money the easy way, ie kidnap and ransom, If you are not armed in the Southern Php, you are a target...

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