Leak at bottom of keel-stepped mast

[flandria]

Hello, all;

The issue is this:
Catalina36MkII, built 2001, mast has never been un-stepped since then;
In-mast furling;
In the past I have had water in the bilge, some of which I assumed was water entering from the mast, and I had no issue with it;
Today, there is quite a puddle at the foot of the mast;
I checked under the floor board and found one small opening that may (or may not) be where water flows from the mast in the bilge;
I also notice now that at some time the mast has gone out of vertical alignment, but that may have happened a while ago;
I will have to fix that, but my question is:

Does water enter from the mast into the bilge - and where?
If that path is obstructed, how can it be unclogged?
Any other observations you may have for which I have not even framed a question.

Incidentally, the boat will be hauled out on October 1 for our long winter up by the Great Lakes.

Many thanks,

Walter/Flandria

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by flandria

Hello, all;

Does water enter from the mast into the bilge - and where?
If that path is obstructed, how can it be unclogged?
Any other observations you may have for which I have not even framed a question.

Yes, water enters into the bilge from the mast. Exactly where I can't say but I definitively can confirm that water enters the bilge from the mast. Water also tends to puddle between mast and the aluminum frame in the floor around the mast. It does not puddle enough to overflow onto the floor (or if it does it flows down the crack between aluminum frame and floor board)

I suspect that 95% of the water coming down the mast just flows out from the bottom of the mast straight into the bilge.


(same model boat with same in mast furling main sail)

[JPA Cate]

Water gets in the mast through the sheave holes and the halyard holes. If you would be happy to have the water drain to the bilge, you could make a hole as close as you can to the bottom of the mast, tap it, and put on a small hose barb, like for a 1/4" tygon tube. Put the hose on, and happy draining. Ours drains into our shower sump (we have dry bilges) and the shower sump pumps it out, when the float switch is activated, another way to manage the situation.

Ann

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Water gets in the mast through the sheave holes and the halyard holes. If you would be happy to have the water drain to the bilge, you could make a hole as close as you can to the bottom of the mast, tap it, and put on a small hose barb, like for a 1/4" tygon tube. Put the hose on, and happy draining. Ours drains into our shower sump (we have dry bilges) and the shower sump pumps it out, when the float switch is activated, another way to manage the situation.

Ann

Actually in this case the water gets into the mast through the gaping slot in the back of the mast that the sail goes in/out through (in addition to sheave holes and halyard holes.
I don't think the OP was questioning how the water gets INTO the mast but rather how it gets OUT of the mast and into the bilge.

I have certainly puzzled about how the puddle gets formed that I think the OP questioned (in the metal plate that surrounds the mast at the sole level).

Although not verified, one way could be through the hole on the port side near (and just above) the sole where the wiring enters the mast.
I never got around to tracing that leak since it doesn't seem to be an issue but just an annoyance. I too have wondered if there might be a weap hole that is plugged up but could not find one.

[pcmm]

Most masts I've seen over the years have little half circle shaped "limber holes" at the bottom of the mast to let rain water drain out. If your mast actually has a shoe installed, there might be a drain hole in the bottom of the shoe or in the side of the mast just above the shoe.

[George DuBose]

My oh my! Your mast has been standing for 17 cold winters? I am surprised the only problem your boat has is a puddle of water at the bottom of the mast.

I presume you haul every winter and leave the boat in a cradle with the mast standing. That is a good recipe for disaster. The cyclic loading on your stays has probably developed a good case of metal fatigue in the stays and shrouds.

In my opinion, there are only three reasons to leave the mast standing when the boat is on the hard. 1. Laziness 2. Trying to avoid damage to the mast and boat by unstepping and stepping the mast. Work with a good yard and you should not have problems 3. Just being cheap.

Pull your stick, cover the aperture in the deck for the winter and then see if you get a puddle around the mast step.

Most boats leak from rainwater in many places, the mast only being one of them.

[Lodbrog1]

I agree with the fellow about being cheap. That many years upright has also and most probably filled the base of your mast with pure organic rotting crud, which have probably clogged any limber holes and probably started corroding the base of the mast and or what ever metal base it sits upon. I would not trust your standing rigging after all this exposure to the elements with more than a 10k breeze.

[huhns]

I have an Island Packet 380 with in-mast furling and a keel-stepped mast, so my situation is similar to yours. As JD1 said, water enters through the slot for the sail and -- for me -- through the large hole for the furling mechanism and lines. At the deck level, there is a foam plug in the mast (solid-core foam) that prevents most water from filling the mast down to the keel. There is a small weep hole just above the mast boot on deck where most water can drain out of the mast. (I say "most water," because some gets through the foam plug and some enters though holes for halyards and other places, as others have mentioned.) There is also a drain hole near the bottom of the mast at the keel for the water that gets through. I hope you find this info useful.

Mike

[Jd1]

I had another look-see and although I did have my mast out at one point, I can not recall if the bottom mast sits on the plate that is at sole level or if the plate is actually a ring and the mast goes further down.
Don't listen to the people spouting gloom and doom about leaving the mast up .... at least here on the wet coast of Canada, very few people take masts down and surprisingly, the boats have not crumbled into nothingness, the rigging has not disintegrated and the world has not come to an end.
Yes it makes sense to pull the mast maybe every 10 years and thoroughly inspect everything but under no circumstances would I do it as a routine operation every year!

[Amnesia II]

On my previous Catalina 42 the mast was stepped at floor level right next to the main bulkhead. In the narrow gap was a lumber hole that I once found all clogged up with fluff & crud that stopped water from the mast draining to the bilge. Once cleared, no further problems.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Jd1

I had another look-see and although I did have my mast out at one point, I can not recall if the bottom mast sits on the plate that is at sole level or if the plate is actually a ring and the mast goes further down.
Don't listen to the people spouting gloom and doom about leaving the mast up .... at least here on the wet coast of Canada, very few people take masts down and surprisingly, the boats have not crumbled into nothingness, the rigging has not disintegrated and the world has not come to an end.
Yes it makes sense to pull the mast maybe every 10 years and thoroughly inspect everything but under no circumstances would I do it as a routine operation every year!

Agree! Remember, the OP is on fresh water. Many of these boats never drop their masts and rigging lasts a very long time.

Our in mast system has two vertical chambers. The forward one is halyards and cables. This leaks some water when it rains. The aft is circular for the fuller and sail. This aft section can catch a lot of water if the rain direction is unfavorable. Ours has a metal dam inside above deck to divert the water out a 1/2 inch drain hole. If the seal of this dam to the interior of the mast is lost water will leak down the mast. If the drain hole is plugged water will spill over the hawse pipe in the dam and run down inside the mast.

[tomlisasail]

Bummer, we have the same boat #2021 and have had the problem for a year and a half. The water drips from the ceiling . We paid a rigger $900 to repair the leak and after cutting off the perfectly good mast rubber boot, we still have a leak and it's worse. I just talked to Warren at Catalina today and going to pay him on his time off to talk us through the repair. I can let you know what we come up with. In the mean time have lots of rags and a dehumidifier.

[hellosailor]

"I also notice now that at some time the mast has gone out of vertical alignment,"
That would worry me. It suggests that the bottom of the mast, or the mast step, or some supporting structure, have been corroded and given way. You'd need to get in there and examine it, and if necessary repair/replace anything that has disintegrated. It is not uncommon for masts to corrode at the base, requiring a new mast step (of extra height) to be installed under them after the base has been trimmed square again.
If you are incredibly lucky the "out of vertical" might just be a rigging problem. With seventeen year old rigging, it is time to have a professional look things over, unless you plan to do dye testing and other rigging checks yourself.
If the base of the mast, or the supporting structure, has corroded, this would be a good time to have it pulled in order to fully evaluate and repair everything.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"I also notice now that at some time the mast has gone out of vertical alignment,"
That would worry me. It suggests that the bottom of the mast, or the mast step, or some supporting structure, have been corroded and given way. You'd need to get in there and examine it, and if necessary repair/replace anything that has disintegrated. It is not uncommon for masts to corrode at the base, requiring a new mast step (of extra height) to be installed under them after the base has been trimmed square again.
If you are incredibly lucky the "out of vertical" might just be a rigging problem. With seventeen year old rigging, it is time to have a professional look things over, unless you plan to do dye testing and other rigging checks yourself.
If the base of the mast, or the supporting structure, has corroded, this would be a good time to have it pulled in order to fully evaluate and repair everything.

Remember this is a great lakes boat. It's not uncommon for freshwater boats to still have their rig for 25 years. We just don't have the same corrosion issues. "out of vertical alignment" here is ambiguoius at best. This might just mean more prebend than the OP remembers, more rake, etc. We need to know the context of the statement to really assist. Though on a 17 year old boat I doubt there are issues with the foot of the mast. If thre is any wood under the mast step that may have rotted ( there really should be no wood there! (on a previous boat I replaced a wooden block with sections of aluminum box channel to transfer loads without the issue of rot)

[hellosailor]

Yes, freshwater boat, different issues. Same problems though. The OP doesn't mention but perhaps the boat has been raced hard and often, and that could put enough strain cycles on rigging to fatigue it in 17 years--even if it was sailing in olive oil. The cyclic loading on the standing rig is as important as the environment. Getting thrashed about all winter by those wonderful lake breezes in Chicago would still count as loading.

But it all comes back to "not vertical". Something is failing. When the rig goes out of column, sooner or later it collapses.