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Old 12-08-2013, 15:11   #46
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

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Originally Posted by wkstar View Post
Thanks svmariane
Maybe I am ahead of the curve,......When the rule is that any boat out past the sight of land Must have ( %%%%% ) to prevent collisions
The seas will be safer

The ship in active motion should be the one most in need of active watch
We currently have a rule in place to make the seas a safer place, that requires every vessel to keep an active watch. The bigger issue here is that sometimes idiots choose to ignore the rules and endanger the rest of us.

The equipment available isn't FOOL PROOF including radar and AIS and never will be. So I guess the rest of us responsible boaters will need to keep a watch out for the FOOLS among us.
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Old 12-08-2013, 15:17   #47
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pirate Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

Be warned... the FOOL is sailing from France to Gibraltar this September... so get outa the fookin way ya wally...
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Old 12-08-2013, 15:24   #48
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

I'm guessing the OP is one of those armchair expert sailors.... someone who's never experienced a close encounter with a container ship suddenly appearing out of nowhere, a tug with a barge or a fishing vessel... none of the above would ever give way for some moron needing a nap... or for anyone else.
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Old 12-08-2013, 15:43   #49
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

Technically if no one is on watch for whatever reason could you consider yourself a vessel"not under command"?

displaying the proper lights or day marks may not help much but in extremis it would be better than nothing.

An undesired side effect of an auto pilot is to allow the watch keeper to gaze at his navel and eventually nod off.
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Old 12-08-2013, 15:51   #50
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pirate Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

[QUOTE=perchance;1309430]Technically if no one is on watch for whatever reason could you consider yourself a vessel"not under command"?

displaying the proper lights or day marks may not help much but in extremis it would be better than nothing.QUOTE]

Uhoh... get yer flak jacket on mate... I get beat up at least once a year over solo sailing... All these near misses folk have its a wonder I'm still alive...
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Old 12-08-2013, 15:53   #51
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

Well, Kenomac, and everybody else,

I think it's wrong to characterize single handers as "idiots". I personally know a few, and a few more from their writings. So I say, live and let live where they are concerned. Most cruisers, however, doublehand. Some sometimes take on crew.

The first time we overtook an unlit sailboat at night, I was really angry about it, and I made a lot of "Ahoy!" noise, shined lights on the cockpit, and stuff, and kept it up. Eventually two people came on deck as we sailed on by. I really wish people wouldn't turn off their nav lights at night. Still, one can see them, IF one is keeping watch. And if their lights failed under way, as can happen, then someone should bloody well be on watch to light their sails.

If the singlehander will give me the opportunity to avoid him or her, fair enough. When he used to singlehand race, Jim used to fly the #1 flag, white triangle with a red circle. If singlehanders would just fly them from the backstay, I bet most cruisers wouldn't have so much trouble with cruising singlehanders. However, if you go and get in the way of one down in the southern latitudes, he'll probably slice you in two!...unless you are keeping a careful watch.

It is encumbent on you to preserve the wellbeing of your ship and her crew, and because of the Colregs, you're supposed to watch out for the other guy as well. Please do it!!

Ann
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Old 12-08-2013, 15:58   #52
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
We currently have a rule in place to make the seas a safer place, that requires every vessel to keep an active watch. The bigger issue here is that sometimes idiots choose to ignore the rules and endanger the rest of us.

The equipment available isn't FOOL PROOF including radar and AIS and never will be. So I guess the rest of us responsible boaters will need to keep a watch out for the FOOLS among us.
Again for folks that cannot seem to grasp the idea that some folks do sail singlehanded, you have to sleep sometime. You can call folks idiots and fools all you want, but it's still a fact.

Shall I list those that have sailed around the world alone or across oceans alone for you so you might understand?
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Old 12-08-2013, 16:01   #53
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Originally Posted by perchance View Post
Technically if no one is on watch for whatever reason could you consider yourself a vessel"not under command"?

displaying the proper lights or day marks may not help much but in extremis it would be better than nothing.

An undesired side effect of an auto pilot is to allow the watch keeper to gaze at his navel and eventually nod off.
That is not the definition of NUC. The COLREGS do not allow the crew to absent themselves at any time !


Dave

Ps I've no barney with singlehanders, but it does break the rules
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Old 12-08-2013, 16:09   #54
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pirate Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Again for folks that cannot seem to grasp the idea that some folks do sail singlehanded, you have to sleep sometime. You can call folks idiots all you want but it's still a fact.

Shall I list those that have sailed around the world alone or across oceans alone for you so you might understand?
Mate... I would not bother... one cannot explain a concept utterly alien to most folk...
None.. or few have likely ever been in a collision so the imagination runs wild... that's why many will look for 2 or 3 crew when the trip could easily be done by a couple... safety in numbers..
The only reason I take crew on deliveries is because the owner and their insurance company demand it... and believe me... I've had more heart stopping moments with crew and owners than I've ever had solo... lifes so much easier asleep... ahahahahaaa
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Old 12-08-2013, 16:25   #55
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

The USCG enjoys purposed ambiguity and the flexibility it offers.
Admiralty law spends most of the time in the grey, far from the extremes of black and white.
To the point let’s take apart rule 5:

Lookout
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.


Define “proper”??? Is it conditional? Why is the word used here?

Define “appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions” Is this conditional? What is the purpose of the additional verbiage?

For those who wish to stand on a rule, end all, one might choose one with more stability. Rule 5 is certainly written “conditionally”. I’m sure the standards are different between the southern approach to Ambrose and 300 miles east of Bermuda, right?
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Old 12-08-2013, 16:40   #56
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pirate Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
That is not the definition of NUC. The COLREGS do not allow the crew to absent themselves at any time !Dave
Oh..!! Well that's okay then... I'm the Skipper..

Small aside.. AWOL is desertion.. that's a hanging offense..
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Old 12-08-2013, 16:51   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perchance View Post
Technically if no one is on watch for whatever reason could you consider yourself a vessel"not under command"?

displaying the proper lights or day marks may not help much but in extremis it would be better than nothing.

An undesired side effect of an auto pilot is to allow the watch keeper to gaze at his navel and eventually nod off.
When a vessel is NUC the vessel, not the skipper is disabled. Examples are broken rudder or engine failure.
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Old 12-08-2013, 17:01   #58
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

+1, well said




Quote:
Originally Posted by svmariane View Post
With only one person aboard - well, you have to sleep sometime. Maybe catnap, maybe heave to, maybe let her run but you'll be relying on your electronic warning systems. Electronics can and do fail in the marine environment. Got backups?

Compared to running under reefed sails, heaved to could mean a little more warning time before the approaching craft comes close IF she's coming from "ahead", but less time if she's coming up from astern. Flip a coin.

With two persons aboard - you're better off adjusting schedules depending on each person's tolerance levels and circadian rhythm. "Three hour watches" isn't carved in stone. Example: my wife takes dusk to midnight; I take midnight to dawn. Three, four, five hour watches - you'll get a sense of it after being underway awhile.

If folk start getting cranky from lack of sleep - well, that's asking for trouble besides ruining what should be a great cruise. Intellectually we all KNOW that a sleep-deprived person could make bad decisions. And anyway, who wants a cranky partner aboard?

Do what suites YOUR crew so everybody gets enough sleep.

One last gentle word of advice/opinion: Maybe other than just coming out the backside of a hurricane/typhoon/cyclone, with two or more folk aboard there isn't reason for NOT having somebody awake, alert, and on watch when underway.

And that's my take on things....

James
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Old 12-08-2013, 17:53   #59
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Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?

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Originally Posted by dugout View Post

(...)

Lookout

Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.


(...)

For those who wish to stand on a rule, end all, one might choose one with more stability. Rule 5 is certainly written “conditionally”.(...)
No.

It is not written conditionally, nor "conditionally".

It is written: "... by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions ...".

b.
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Old 12-08-2013, 19:18   #60
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With all respects to my esteemed colleagues and maritime betters- the debate has become rhetorical. We may as well debate the number of angels that can dance on a pinhead!

The reality is that single handers will nap, and fix lunch- when they do they technically violate regulations. But a crew of two, where a crewman is hurt and being tended to, is also failing to keep watch. So they are violating the rules. Heaven forbid it is a couple doing the "wild thing" below deck.... They may not even hear the AIS alarm (note to self celibacy now required on board). Like I said the debate is rhetorical.

IMHO, this is where book knowledge and bilge-attorney-ing ends and seamanship starts. Alter course! It is a big friggn ocean. Even if I am the stand-on vessel, I will alter course slightly if it makes the passing work easily.
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