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Old 04-08-2013, 12:18   #31
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Re: Keel Damage

Lynne Reister knows her stuff. lodestarmarine.com
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:23   #32
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Re: Keel Damage

I have seen alot of boats with iron keel "Bleed". However, most often it seems to be at the joint where it is bolted on. For some reason this one looks bad to me... but that's just gut feel, based on color of the bleed and the linear crack. There is no one out there with a crystal ball... even surveyors are going to have differing thoughts, it could break and fall off or be fine for many years. As mentioned earlier, I would walk away or deduct the cost of a new keel fitted to the boat.... which may be as much as they are asking for the boat! The only way anyone could give you confidence woud be to xray the casting.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:31   #33
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Re: Keel Damage

You won't find more competent yard workers than at the yard in Port Townsend, WA. They even have experts in wooden boat construction and repair. Check them out if that is where your boat is lying. Phil
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Old 05-09-2013, 22:14   #34
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Re: Keel Damage

I contacted Hunter tech support at the suggestion of my surveyor and sent them many pictures. According to Hunter tech support today: "It doesn't look that bad to me. The cracking is in the fairing and comes with normal use."

Thoughts?
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:20   #35
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Re: Keel Damage

I never ever trust people like dealers / representatives. I found them telling me things I want too hear too many times. Dealers and representatives are salesmen. They are paid for selling to you, not for helping you finding real, usable answers.

To me, only word from independent and professional source counts.

Grind, inspect, hire a surveyor, if you find yourself at your limits.

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Old 06-09-2013, 08:14   #36
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Re: Keel Damage

if it is the boat you want, you could negotiate the sale price, have the survey, and if everything else checks out, have a closing leaving enough money in escrow to possibly replace the keel. At that point, have a yard or technician grind the fairing off exposing the cast iron, and do a visible inspection. I don't think anyone can give you a definite answer without doing an invasive evaluation. The owner probably wouldn't allow that to be done pre-closing. Cast iron keels rust, rust expands and cracks fairing. Being on the hard could cause flexing at the keel joint that would then allow moisture in starting the process.
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:42   #37
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Re: Keel Damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Olson View Post
I contacted Hunter tech support at the suggestion of my surveyor and sent them many pictures. According to Hunter tech support today: "It doesn't look that bad to me. The cracking is in the fairing and comes with normal use."

Thoughts?
To me a version of "they all do that" is of no comfort!

Me is kinda old fashioned when it comes to keels being firmly attached to boats .
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:33   #38
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Re: Keel Damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Olson View Post
I contacted Hunter tech support at the suggestion of my surveyor and sent them many pictures. According to Hunter tech support today: "It doesn't look that bad to me. The cracking is in the fairing and comes with normal use."

Thoughts?
At the risk of starting another basher/anti-basher war...

My thought is that I would not want to buy a boat where the above was true!

Severe cracking in "fairing" at the keel root is indicative of what I believe to be excessive flexibility in the hull, and that is something that would be a deal breaker for me.

YMMV, and I hope that you can come to a satisfactory resolution of your problem.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:46   #39
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Re: Keel Damage

sound slike lynn is the washingtonian kjells christian.lol

these lil problems sound like much of the rationale behind my choice of a solid formosa and my continual rejection of most boats built in factories......i slipped a lil when i bought my ericson and a previous small islander, and returned to non production line boats built when lots of glass was a good idea and weight didnt matter for cruising boats........

buen provecho with your problem and i hope it isnt too major.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:08   #40
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Re: Keel Damage

FRP and lead of iron have vastly different coefficients of expansion/contraction. Couple that with a relatively inflexibile epoxy fairing compound and hairline fractures in the compound are almost inevitable.

Combine the above plus water getting under the epoxy (unless prepped to perfection-unlikely) and this condition is difficult to escape, very common and not necessarily an indicator of anything more than a cosmetic issue. Wrapping a swath of glass cloth in the fairing compound reduces the likelihood of these type of fractures.

If the fractures bother you, use cauling instead of fairing compound.

This has nothing to to with it being a Hunter, any vessel with a keel bolted to a keel sump can suffer from this issue.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:17   #41
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Re: Keel Damage

Boatpoker,

So far, in a longish history of being involved with sailboats (~30 yrs.), NONE of them have had cracks where the keel meets the hull; they were a Yankee 30, a Palmer Johnson Stanfast 36; and our present WRC modern composite construction one-off. All of these are fin keel boats.

So, honestly, I do not believe that such cracks are "almost inevitable", given good construction practices. If the hull is too lightly built, yes, one sees these cracks. And not to name names, yes, such cracks are common, but not necessarily almost inevitable.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:38   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Olson View Post
I contacted Hunter tech support at the suggestion of my surveyor and sent them many pictures. According to Hunter tech support today: "It doesn't look that bad to me. The cracking is in the fairing and comes with normal use."

Thoughts?
Steve for what it's worth a friend of ours has a 2008ish give or take a year Hunter 36. He patches the forward part of his keel every other year or so and no it wasn't from grounding. He is one of the most particular people I know about his boat and maintains it almost to the point of silly. His boat is not sailed hard at all either.

SC
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:09   #43
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Re: Keel Damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Boatpoker,

So far, in a longish history of being involved with sailboats (~30 yrs.), NONE of them have had cracks where the keel meets the hull; they were a Yankee 30, a Palmer Johnson Stanfast 36; and our present WRC modern composite construction one-off. All of these are fin keel boats.

So, honestly, I do not believe that such cracks are "almost inevitable", given good construction practices. If the hull is too lightly built, yes, one sees these cracks. And not to name names, yes, such cracks are common, but not necessarily almost inevitable.
You longish history against my 1500 sailboat surveys. Obviously we see things differently.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:22   #44
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Re: Keel Damage

PS. Here is a list of sailboats I have surveyed. Perhaps this will give you an indication of how I came to my conclusions.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:51   #45
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Re: Keel Damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
FRP and lead of iron have vastly different coefficients of expansion/contraction. Couple that with a relatively inflexibile epoxy fairing compound and hairline fractures in the compound are almost inevitable.

Combine the above plus water getting under the epoxy (unless prepped to perfection-unlikely) and this condition is difficult to escape, very common and not necessarily an indicator of anything more than a cosmetic issue. Wrapping a swath of glass cloth in the fairing compound reduces the likelihood of these type of fractures.

If the fractures bother you, use cauling instead of fairing compound.

This has nothing to to with it being a Hunter, any vessel with a keel bolted to a keel sump can suffer from this issue.
G'Day BP,

In order for the differential in coefficients of expansion to cause the cracking there would have to be some significant changes in temperature. When the keel and lower hull are immersed in water which remains at a fairly constant temperature, I can't believe in this being the cause of cracking. Further, the coefficients for Lead and FRP are nearly identical (15.1 vs 14 x10^-6 in/in deg F) and cast iron is not that far off (5.9 x10^-6 in/in deg F).

I believe that you have indeed witnessed lots of these sorts of cracks, but I don't think that you have correctly attributed them to this cause. The bending moment from the mass of the keel when heeled surely causes more distortion in the hull than differential expansion. As you suggest, the use of a more flexible fairing compound will likely reduce the cracking whatever its origin.

Cheers,

Jim
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