Inboard engines and a changing world

[Corvidae]

Technically you can cross the Atlantic in a fart powered bathtub. That doesn't mean it's a viable long distance cruiser. 2.5 to 3 knots is what you'll end up with when facing currents and winds in a boat that only manages 5 knots. If that's where you start, then you shouldn't go, the seasons are going to change before you get there. And a lot of inlets and bridges, will be impassable for half the day, some marina's will be simply impossible to navigate outside of slack tide.

I'm not saying this out of speculation, we've put a few thousand miles on our electric motors. We've motored from Miami to Annapolis and back again. I don't need fuel to hit 6 knots, for about two hours. And it would be cheap and easy to double that. But I'd still have most of the day left to travel, and then that power has to be put back. If we're going back to the dock, then fine, there's shore power. Otherwise, there needs to be a generator to keep going.

Can you move a boat with only a couple hundred watts? Sure, sometimes it's enough to fight the current while docking. Just don't do it near my boat.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

This type of hyper insane nonsense just devalues a reasonable conversation. The western world is changing its food patterns anyway , with local food , and a move away from dairy /meat

Large commercial Diesel engines will undoubtably be around for several decades even as alternatives are rolled out. Eventually electric powered tractors and so forth will predominate

Suggesting the world will starve is just a Lumbaugh rant style debate. All noise and no reason

;We ' will never see a feasible commercial electric airplane. BTW Im still waiting for those flying cars I read about in Popular Mechanics mag in 1951 cars and grocieries via drone. tic toc tok

[Corvidae]

Originally Posted by geoleo

Jeez Mike- Nuke engines are getting smaller ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Savannah

Only about $500 million after inflation. Pocket change for us sailboat cruisers.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Corvidae

You need to find better news sources that aren't spreading baseless rumors.

That 'plan' was a proposal that wasn't adopted, was never near implementation, and even if it were, was no where near a ban on electric cars.

Don't fall for click bait, it's bad for you.

Perhaps you should read the article it states that was one of the ideas put forth and I would believe it to be a potential emergency measure considering that's exactly what the big pusher of electric cars California actually did this past. Summer. Due to electrical shortages .https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/u...-charging.html

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Tedd

Also motor sailing, where you'd need even less power. For a smaller boat (24-26 feet), only about a hundred watts would double your speed on a very light wind day.

But what about reanchoring when you start dragging in a hurricane.? Ice does better every time . it's energy density that is the big block and batteries can't match diesel .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by geoleo

;We ' will never see a feasible commercial electric airplane. BTW Im still waiting for those flying cars I read about in Popular Mechanics mag in 1951 cars and grocieries via drone. tic toc tok

https://harbourair.com/tours/
And then there is the 30 plane contract signed with air Canada.

Electric air travel is here just not long haul aircraft

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Personally I like the idea of going electric. I think it has a lot of advantages over dino-power. Not just the possible lower impact on the environment, but also because electric engines are simpler, quieter, and don't require all those volatile and stinky fluids to be pumped around.

If amp storage and solar generating technology was both say 100 or 1000 fold better, I'd definitely repower, even with the cost being twice as high. We're getting there, but right now I don't see magnitude leaps in battery storage or generating capacity. It keeps getting incrementally better, but my sense is we're going to need a fundamentally different technology for amp storage to really reach the energy densities I would want.



I'm all for going "green" but, as you know , the benefits gained from shifting to electric engines largely depend on how the electricity is generated and delivered.

If we just move the dino-juice out of the vehicles (and boats), but continue to produce most of our electricity via dino-powered generators, then the "green" benefits are modest at best. If we can also shift our bulk electricity production to renewables or nuclear (a more viable option), then it likely makes environmental sense.

For example, fossil fuels still accounts for 63.6% of the USA's electric generating needs. Nuclear is 19.4% with all renewables coming in at 16.9%. I bet Canadian numbers aren't far off. So buying an electric car, at least in North America, does little to improve the overall carbon footprint. It just shifts the source a bit.

BTW, I also looked long and hard at the various electric outboards for my dingy. I borrowed a Torqueedo (the leading retailer at the time). It worked great to move my little portabote as fast as I needed. But once again, the range, amp-storage (battery) and recharging challenges drove me back to dino-juice. It's just hard to beat fossil fuel's energy density.

Well here it is

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

....

For example, fossil fuels still accounts for 63.6% of the USA's electric generating needs. Nuclear is 19.4% with all renewables coming in at 16.9%. I bet Canadian numbers aren't far off. So buying an electric car, at least in North America, does little to improve the overall carbon footprint. It just shifts the source a bit.....

Canada is almost the reverse of the US.:

Hydro is 60% of all production.
Nuke is 15%
Natural gas and coal together are 18%
Wind is 5%
https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-an...es-canada.html

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Corvidae

Technically you can cross the Atlantic in a fart powered bathtub. That doesn't mean it's a viable long distance cruiser. 2.5 to 3 knots is what you'll end up with when facing currents and winds in a boat that only manages 5 knots. If that's where you start, then you shouldn't go, the seasons are going to change before you get there. And a lot of inlets and bridges, will be impassable for half the day, some marina's will be simply impossible to navigate outside of slack tide.

I'm not saying this out of speculation, we've put a few thousand miles on our electric motors. We've motored from Miami to Annapolis and back again. I don't need fuel to hit 6 knots, for about two hours. And it would be cheap and easy to double that. But I'd still have most of the day left to travel, and then that power has to be put back. If we're going back to the dock, then fine, there's shore power. Otherwise, there needs to be a generator to keep going.

Can you move a boat with only a couple hundred watts? Sure, sometimes it's enough to fight the current while docking. Just don't do it near my boat.

2.5-3.0kt is what you go mid-Atlantic when you have gone stir crazy sitting in a calm for a day or so.

If I'm facing winds the sails go up and the motor goes off.
If I'm facing currents mid-ocean either I've badly screwed my navigation and will be trying to figure out which way to sail to get out of the current.

If I'm in the ICW that is different from being on passage.

The Wisdom crew went up the ICW this summer on electric power. They generally timed their runs to accommodate the currents at and between inlets. But they weren't on a schedule and were content with 3kt.

If you have a schedule and/or feel a need to to 5.5kt then by all means, use the ICE.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Canada is almost the reverse of the US.:

Hydro is 60% of all production.
Nuke is 15%
Natural gas and coal together are 18%
Wind is 5%
https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-an...es-canada.html

My state of Washington looks similar to all of Canada

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Perhaps you should read the article it states that was one of the ideas put forth and I would believe it to be a potential emergency measure considering that's exactly what the big pusher of electric cars California actually did this past. Summer. Due to electrical shortages .https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/u...-charging.html

Are you seriously expecting a US news source to correctly report the facts, implications and nuances of the politics and policies of a small neutral country that has 3 official languages?

The New York Times has a correspondent there, Nick Cumming-Bruce, who is mostly focused on the UN and international agencies.

If it were France, Germany, the UK, Italy, the Netherlands or maybe even Sweden I could see it.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by newhaul

But what about reanchoring when you start dragging in a hurricane.? Ice does better every time . it's energy density that is the big block and batteries can't match diesel .

How many hours of full thrust does it take to re-anchor a boat during a hurricane?

Just because one primarily uses EP doesn't mean ICE can't be used on a boat ever.

Certainly I would consider starting a generator once it became apparent there would be extended use of EP at high throttle.

As someone seriously considering EP, I would also have an outboard in an inboard well as per AtomVoyages.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by newhaul

My state of Washington looks similar to all of Canada

I wish I could move back there. I miss it so much, even the constant drizzle.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Are you seriously expecting a US news source to correctly report the facts, implications and nuances of the politics and policies of a small neutral country that has 3 official languages?

The New York Times has a correspondent there, Nick Cumming-Bruce, who is mostly focused on the UN and international agencies.

If it were France, Germany, the UK, Italy, the Netherlands or maybe even Sweden I could see it.

https://www.lbtechreviews.com/news/a...in-switzerland
https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/12/0...rom-its-roads/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...shortages.html

These sources more acceptable?


https://www.google.com/search?q=swit...obile&ie=UTF-8

Choose one you want

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Adelie

I wish I could move back there. I miss it so much, even the constant drizzle.

Now to make you mad. Driest November in decades
https://www.king5.com/article/weathe...f-5d68a5381709

You would be welcome back. Friday harbor is awesome in the winter.