How much say do women really have

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

There is another way to look at Twin everything..there is twice as much to go wrong!

I guess you rather have one leg than two? One eye? One arm?

[dannc]

Originally Posted by weavis

LOL.... First officer pilot in control is still not the captain. Jes sayin'

I guess my military background and subsequent life journey, makes it hard to accept shared command, for want of a better term. My experience shows that things go awry in a tense situation if both are making independent decisions. Ultimately, ONE person has to assume command.

For the cruising couples who alternate roles whilst on watch, that is no different to a watch keeper making decisions along a predetermined plan, and yet ultimately in an emergency, ONE person has to decide on a course of action.

If yaw'l are content with going along with the choices made in alternation, then thats fine.

I did not know Weavis was from the South.... Or are you talking about a type of sailing vessel?

Over the last few decades the Incident Command System(ICS) has been implemented in many emergency service organizations in the US. It is really very simple system designed to manage small to huge incidents that can require one or thousands of responders.

Say, there is a traffic accident and and officer is sent to the scene. The officer arrives and is now the Incident Commander(IC). The officer/Incident Command is in charge of the situation until relieved by someone of higher training and experience. If the accident is a simple fender bender, the officer will not need other resources. But say the accident has some injuries so the officer requests an ambulance. The officer is still the IC and in charge of the accident.

If the accident involved multiple vehicles and caused a traffic disruption the IC would request multiple ambulances and other officers to handle the traffic. The arriving officer is still in charge as the IC unless a supervisor rolls in and relieves the arriving officer as the IC. A supervisor might arrive on scene and let the officer maintain IC since the incident is relatively small and under control. The IC is really only managing a couple of other officers directing traffic and the paramedic/EMT in charge of each ambulance.

One rule of ICS is that no person is supervising more than 5-10 people to keep the IC from being overwhelmed. This system can and does get implemented with large number of people from many different agencies responding to one incident.

I think some couples have a "traditional" Captain chain of command but other couples have an ICS, though I don't think they realized they were implementing ICS. Either will work. It just depends on the people involved, their skill sets and personality.

Y'all be right.

Later,
Dan

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I guess you rather have one leg than two? One eye? One arm?

Thats a cute comeback and I applaud your thinking. Do you have 2 brains and 2 dicks to go along with your other twins?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Thats a cute comeback and I applaud your thinking. Do you have 2 brains and 2 dicks to go along with your other twins?

Only one of each, but they're twice as big....

Back to reality, there's no possible question that having multiples of vital systems is an advantage. If we DID have two hearts, or two brains, then our vulnerability to stroke or heart attack would be greatly improved.

[robert sailor]

I don't think the safety stats would agree that twice the systems make the craft any safer. We used to have a joke amoung pilots that said when you lose an engine on a twin the other engine would take you to the scene of the crash. I think it's nice to have double the systems but I don't think it's a large advantage for safety. It is a much higher cost. Don't get me wrong I like many Cats especially those that sail real well, I think they are great and right near the to of the pile when it comes to comfortable cruising.

[charleshagen]

What are the reasons behind the preference for CATS?

Charles

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by charleshagen

What are the reasons behind the preference for CATS?

Charles

omg, your very first post and you asked a doozer

Welcome to CF

[jangann]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Purchased my boat without consulting, nevertheless, she likes it! She likes the high handrails, wide deck, enclosed pilothouse, and so on. Staying in an open cockpit isn't her thing.

What is it?


An Ocean Lover in Maine.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by charleshagen

What are the reasons behind the preference for CATS?

Charles

Welcome aboard Charles

Your question will require at least 3000 relies to be discussed adequately and no agreement will be reached.

Perhaps a simpler question that we can all agree on is better for starting out.

Perhaps a thread asking "Which type of anchor should I buy and why"

That thread will still be going strong in the year 2050.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

I don't think the safety stats would agree that twice the systems make the craft any safer. We used to have a joke amoung pilots that said when you lose an engine on a twin the other engine would take you to the scene of the crash. I think it's nice to have double the systems but I don't think it's a large advantage for safety. It is a much higher cost. Don't get me wrong I like many Cats especially those that sail real well, I think they are great and right near the to of the pile when it comes to comfortable cruising.

This is not complicated stuff. If you have one engine and it stops you're going down. If you have a second engine, you can keep flying.


I'm pretty sure the safety stats DO show that multi-engine aircraft are MUCH safer.

Luckily boats don't need engines to stay afloat. But it's still an advantage to have more than one.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

This is not complicated stuff. If you have one engine and it stops you're going down. If you have a second engine, you can keep flying.


I'm pretty sure the safety stats DO show that multi-engine aircraft are MUCH safer.

Luckily boats don't need engines to stay afloat. But it's still an advantage to have more than one.

Take the time to read this bit of knowledge I attached regarding flying light twin aircraft as you will learn something. Flying twin engine aircraft comes with its own set of issues when you lose an engine and much of it is a surprise for most people.
Now as you say twin engine redundancy really means bugger all in a sailboat when it comes to safety. If you are a lousy sailor and motor all the time then it might mean something but I doubt that's the case. We lost our engine crossing the Atlantic and it was nothing more than a small inconvenience which is why having 2 engines to me are nothing more than twice the cost and twice the maintenance.

Single vs twin - AOPA

[SailRedemption]

I try to get as much input from my girlfriend (hopefully more soon) when I can.. Anything from interior lights to anchors. I like her opinion on looks and/or if it's a smart move financially, as in do we really need it or is it an expensive want. She checks me before I buy things so I don't impulse buy and I do the same for her. There are some things I know more about that she can't make informed opinions about and vise vesa.

Granted she didn't help pick the boat but she loves it nonetheless. We're a team, I'm just the captain of it.. But like the saying goes, if you are the smartest person in the room, you are in the wrong room.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Take the time to read this bit of knowledge I attached regarding flying light twin aircraft as you will learn something. Flying twin engine aircraft comes with its own set of issues when you lose an engine and much of it is a surprise for most people.
Now as you say twin engine redundancy really means bugger all in a sailboat when it comes to safety. If you are a lousy sailor and motor all the time then it might mean something but I doubt that's the case. We lost our engine crossing the Atlantic and it was nothing more than a small inconvenience which is why having 2 engines to me are nothing more than twice the cost and twice the maintenance.

Single vs twin - AOPA

That article is incredibly biased. The choice comparison - twin engine pilots supposedly have too many choices, whereas for a single engine pilot it's "simple" - land.

Unless of course there's nowhere nearby enough to land... then maybe having "too many choices" becomes a good thing.

Back to boats. Double the cost? Well that's a load of garbage. The engine(s) are a small percentage of the cost of the boat. Double the maintenance? Garbage again - most long distance motoring or motorsailing is done using one engine.

I reckon you really ought to cut one of your arms and legs off. They're only more cost and more to go wrong, right? Having to buy shoes in pairs, two knees to injure, and so on.

Even better, cut BOTH your arm and legs off.

And then go sailing in your engineless boat.

Think of the money you'll save!

[tinkrman69]

the only thing i can see as to what this thread has become .....well I don't know what this has to do with how much say women have.....except I'm sure they are saying, would you boys grow up and get real?

start a new thread.

By the way women have as much say as they want. the thread should have said "how much say do women give up?"

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

That article is incredibly biased. The choice comparison - twin engine pilots supposedly have too many choices, whereas for a single engine pilot it's "simple" - land.

Unless of course there's nowhere nearby enough to land... then maybe having "too many choices" becomes a good thing.

Back to boats. Double the cost? Well that's a load of garbage. The engine(s) are a small percentage of the cost of the boat. Double the maintenance? Garbage again - most long distance motoring or motorsailing is done using one engine.

I reckon you really ought to cut one of your arms and legs off. They're only more cost and more to go wrong, right? Having to buy shoes in pairs, two knees to injure, and so on.

Even better, cut BOTH your arm and legs off.

And then go sailing in your engineless boat.

Think of the money you'll save!

Flying...I've been a Commercial Pilot and Instructor for over 45 years so I do understand a little bit about the subject and there is no bias in the article. Light twins can be a dangerous vehicle if they lose an engine at the wrong time, particularly on takeoff. Aircraft engines have a habit of failing on the first power reduction after takeoff (although it is still rare) so if its going to go the odds increase on takeoff. I recognize to the uninformed twins would seem to be twice as safe but that's simply not the case.

Owning 2 engines in a boat are no different than in an aircraft. When you maintain 2 engines the costs are double that of looking after one. The fuel burn is twice as much and to replace them is double as well...this is pretty simple math.

As to sailing without an engine, even into a marina, well that's pretty easy although I have never done it with no arms or legs...I suppose I would have to change my name to Art or Matt!