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Polux · 29-03-2016, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Could not? Or chose not to?

I mean, are you really trying to say they COULDN'T put the sails away and run under bare poles?

And do you know exactly why the rig failed?

Or are you just making stuff up, which seems to be standard practise here....

If not even the guys from Gunboat cannot sail their boats safely who can?
It is supposed that they had privileged knowledge about the boat, its limits and what could and could not be done safely.

We are not talking here about hurricane winds, they were sailing in 40K squalls. They talked about a 70K squall but then if they had lost the mast it is natural that they had exaggerated a bit as justification.

They were sailing under a 3rd reefed main and a storm jib.

The conditions were bad but don't seem as bad to constitute any risk of capsize to a boat of that size and type. Did not really understood why they had abandoned the boat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOC-x1UtU1k

44'cruisingcat · 29-03-2016, 15:25

Ah, so YOU know why the rig failed then?

Can you share this knowledge with us all? I'm sure many of us would be interested to know.

Factor · 29-03-2016, 15:30

Here is a link that maybe useful to you Polux

Link Thingy

IslandHopper · 29-03-2016, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by beiland

Just because the vessel has that capability does NOT mean you have to utilize it all the time,...simply sail it in a reefed condition when your out cruising. There are a number of 'race boats' that get delivered from place to place, and often with skeleton crews. These guys don't sail the boats all-out during these deliveries, and/or certainly not at night when potential squalls might occur.

Just back off of the accelerator at times. But it is nice to know that your 'Ferrari' has that capability.

BTW, a whole lot of ladies like these level sailing catamarans, and the spaciousness of that saloon. Just don't scare them by over-sailing it while they are on board. I venture to think you would be real surprised by an honest survey as to women's preference between monos and multis.

With all due resect you are preaching to the choir

I think there a fantastic piece of kit and I'm sure there owners derive all sorts of pleasure out of them, but you see that is why I started my post with "For me".

I don't want to cruise at 20 knots these days, I'm more than happy with 8 or 9 so cannot justify the added expense of buying a vessel that can achieve this, ipso facto I would not define it as a cruising vessel "for me", others would and do, and more power to them

As for the "Ferrari" comparison, I prefer my diesel Landcruiser 4X4, It will take me more places than the Ferrari, albeit at a much more sedate pace

And yes my partner would love us to have a big cat, but whenever she see's a nice one and say's "ohh that's lovely" I just say, "sure is love, and if you want one you better get down to the strip and shake it, cause out combined income at the moment won't support one", she usually just smiles and says she love's what we have

donradcliffe · 29-03-2016, 15:46

The details of the Rainmaker disaster have been beaten to death both in CF and Sailing Anarchy. I would presume you in particular would at least have read some of them.

A reasonable man would say that one of the major contributing causes was the decisions to make the boat higher performance and sexier, rather than more seaworthy. The frailty of high performance boats is not just a multihull thing--the inability to slow down the Volvo 70's caused a number of structural problems.

I don't know exactly how the rig failed, and neither does or will anyone else that hasn't been muzzled by the lawyers. My personal opinion is that it was a design flaw rather than a component failure--they were running into a left-over head swell, and there was insufficient support to keep the mast from pumping out of column.

I agree with your conjecture that running bare poles would have probably have prevented the dismasting. However, as a cat expert, what would you do when running downwind with wind against current into a head swell and 40 knots of wind suddenly becomes 60?? (I believe the forecast was for worse weather at that location later, so there was a major incentive to get as far South as possible.)

**boatman61** · 29-03-2016, 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux

Machine:A device consisting of fixed and moving parts that modifies ... energy and transmits it in a more useful form.

Sounds like a human..

44'cruisingcat · 29-03-2016, 15:53

For a start, I wouldn't have any mainsail up. Running downwind in strong conditions, the main just makes steering the boat harder, and introduces the risk of an accidental gybe. A part furled headsail, or storm jib would be plenty of sail area in those conditions.

I actually agree with you, that the rig looked under-supported. But without knowing exactly why it failed that's just speculation.

**boatman61** · 29-03-2016, 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Ah, so YOU know why the rig failed then?

Can you share this knowledge with us all? I'm sure many of us would be interested to know.

They did not read the Lagoon Handbook..??

Polux · 29-03-2016, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Sounds like a human..

We are an organic machine but unfortunately one that don't last long

Polux · 29-03-2016, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Ah, so YOU know why the rig failed then?

Can you share this knowledge with us all? I'm sure many of us would be interested to know.

No, I know that it should not have failed.

**neilpride** · 29-03-2016, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

They did not read the Lagoon Handbook..??

Heheh, best post ever in this topic, and they don't reach the page when the book explain how to reef according to the conditions.lol

44'cruisingcat · 29-03-2016, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux

No, I know that it should not have failed.

Yes, and the space-shuttle shouldn't have exploded, and cars should never have any defects and every new version of windows should be bug free and better than the one before it and the keels shouldn't fall off new Oyster yachts....

But guess what? The world isn't perfect.

There's a point - the keel fell of a relatively new Oyster yacht. Do we condemn every boat Oyster ever built because of it?

**boatman61** · 29-03-2016, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux

We are an organic machine but unfortunately one that don't last long

In that case we must be Cat people.. two feet work better than one..

Polux · 29-03-2016, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

...

There's a point - the keel fell of a relatively new Oyster yacht. Do we condemn every boat Oyster ever built because of it?

I said already that I liked Gunboats but not that design (the one that lost the mast). In fact I posted the video Doug posted about the 66 several years ago on another forum as an interesting sailboat.

I don't think that all Oysters have problems but I think that the model that lost the keel had problems and it is not only me but Oyster too, since it had modified the existent boats.

I do think that the rig on that particular Gunboat model probably has design problems in what concerns preventing "pumping" and even regarding other models it is not the first Gunboat to lose the mast and they are not so many.

So why are you saying that I do condemn all Gunboats? I even like the boat even if the design/style could be better and it seem to me over priced.