Cruising and Modern Conveniences- All is good with Universe

[mvweebles]

Topic of latter day cruisers seems to bring out the chorus of “back in the day” who point to Starlink, smart phones, and Instagram as death-star to true cruising. My wife and I spent the last 6-months on a lazy delivery from Ensenada MX to Chiapas MX (20 miles from Guatemala).

Now, I have to qualify the definition of “cruiser” for us. First, our choice of boat is a trawler vs a sailboat, and an old one at that. We are in our 60s, recently retired, with a comfortable nest egg. We see cruising as a means to travel – it’s not about the boat per se. We’ve spent 6-months full-time aboard our 36-foot trawler and have stored it for the next 6-months during the rainy season. During which time we’ll spend a month or so at our home in Florida; a couple months in the Yucatan (Mexico), and a couple months in the mountains of Colorado. Somewhere we’ll fit in visits with friends in Wyoming and New England.

We have met so many kindred spirts that it’s hard to describe. We are currently house-sitting for a friend in the mountains of Costa Rica and will spend the next week with folks we met at an anchorage a few months ago. In fact, we hitched a ride on their boat from Chiapas to Costa Rica, a 3-day/500 nms run.

From our perspective, Starlink enables WhatsApp (which has partially displaced Cruiser/VHF/SSB nets), NoForeignLand, Panama Posse, and some other apps that have allowed us to expand relationships. When we see a boat is in the area, we introduce ourselves which often leads to light cocktails and a lengthy discussion on cruising destinations (we got such great information on traveling to Oaxaca from a delightful Canadian couple on a Saga 43). I have dozens of pictures of groups of cruisers doing Pot Lucks, sharing a rental car to travel inland, hiring a taxi to tour a city, hiring a panga to run up a river, and so many social interactions. We don’t have children but for boats who do, they can better find other boats with kids.

Starlink has enabled PredictWind and other weather apps. It’s also allowed me to obtain tech support from a very patient cruiser who spent 4-weeks (on/off) helping me work through a charging system issue.

And yes, we still knock on hulls to say hello. And we still meet people the old fashioned way too.

We didn’t have expectations on what our flavor of cruising would mean except a commitment that we would stop doing it the moment it stopped being fun. So far, we’ve had an absolute blast. For those who think modern communications keep cruisers from socializing, that’s a choice they make but it doesn’t have to be that way - for us, it's increased our social network compared to land-based living. That said, the most isolated cruisers we’ve met have been 30-ish remote worker types who seem to be a bit lost looking for Instagram moments to prove they're having fun. But I suspect it takes more time to develop a personality – hopefully they will be more feature-rich when they hit 40.

In closing, my 2-cents is it’s not about the boat, it’s about the travel. Technology is a double-endged sword. I can enable but it can also be barrier. We’ve met so many boats with electrical charging issues (us included) that have seriously impeded their plans. Victron/LFP/Balmar kit is amazing stuff but the chances of finding help south of the border are near zero. I know of one boat that returned to San Diego from Mazatlán to have their system worked on. My advice is to balance the desire for comfort with the maintenability of the components. LFP batteries are impossible to replace - AGM are not, for example.

M/V Weebles –
1970 Willard 36 Cruiser (Trawler)
Wm Garden design.

[Kettlewell]

My wife and I are old enough to not go into cold sweats when we don't have access to a cellphone signal, the Internet, or social media--in fact, we find it quite refreshing! Yes, modern communication gear can provide very useful stuff, like weather forecasts and repair information. But, I do detect a certain loss of skills among the newer generation who have never known cruising prior to the digital age. It sounds silly, but I am frequently pulling out my paper Eldridge Tide & Pilot book in New England in order to look up local tides and currents, and the very valuable tidal charts. I'm guessing that most of today's sailors don't do this because I frequently see them slogging into 2.5 knots of current on the wrong side of Vineyard Sound or Buzzards Bay for example. Or, people constantly going aground in channel entrances that don't have an actual tide station. Or, sitting down below watching something on their big screen TV with the a/c running while the sunset is spectacular. I mostly navigate using paper charts, but I do also call up harbor details on my smartphone. It is really nice to be able to call the kids on the phone, or check to make sure all is well with the bank account, but I don't feel those things are critical to my happiness onboard. Back in the day we used to tell my Mom, "Don't worry unless you hear from us." We didn't want her calling the coast guard if we were a day late arriving someplace. I still relish the idea of being on our own, with only our own wits and what we have onboard making for a safe passage to the next harbor.

[rslifkin]

There's a definite distinction between wanting/having all of the tech because it's cool vs because it's useful to you and there's a benefit to having it. I'm fairly young compared to most on this forum, but I try pretty hard to stick towards the second type with the boat. I don't mind complexity and tech on the boat, but it should be there for a reason (such as allowing us to work from the boat so we can spend more time on the boat, or making it reasonable to use the boat in a wider range of conditions).

[thomm225]

I guess if you don't have a technical background, a redundant or backup system is needed if you plan to sail/motor off the grid.

On her RTW Sail, Cole Brauer had two systems for electrical power. Solar and a Hydrogenerator. (she may have had an engine and alternator also)

She did have to repair her hydrogenerator though couple times.

If you use an alternator and separate regulator, you'd need to take a spare of each.

Most of us have dealt with alternator charging problems with our vehicles so that should be a pretty routine repair most of the time.

A problem with solar is usually pretty straight forward to troubleshoot, but you do need a bit of electrical/electronic knowledge.

My only source of electrical power is solar, so I have 4 separate panels and backup PWM Controllers. I use a Victron Smart Controller as the main controller.

I use two 6 volt golf cart batteries for 12 volts, but before I sail on a distance cruise, I'll add a 12 volt battery and I may give it a separate controller and panel for charging.

For my chart plotter, I have a laptop. My backup is two Raspberry Pi computers and an HDTV for the monitor plus charts for the East Coast. All are loaded with OpenCPN charts.

My engine is a 5 HP outboard but since I have a sailboat I could go without the engine if necessary.

Also, if you have had your boat for a while and have sailed locally, many of the problems you might see on a long distance cruise you may have already seen.

On my first few boats though, I had no backups or electronics of any kind, no radio, no compass, no depth finder, so if I had a problem 5-15 miles offshore I had to fix it myself or hope for rescue.

When Matt Rutherford sailed around the Americas on an Albin Vega 27, all his systems failed including his engine and batteries, so he had no lights or radio for a while. (but did have a backup Sat phone)

He did have sails though and his rudder didn't fail so he completed the voyage. Bilge pump also failed without a spare.

https://reddotontheocean.com/

[davil]

at 83 have dealt with

old times were better (nonsense)

newest gizmos and technology is better (nonsense)

Best time is what I do with it today

Memories are good, to remember, but I do not live in them.

I am pragmatic, use any tool new or latest to add to my COMFORT and SAFETY.

From chart papers to the latest electronic navigation gizmos.

Do not have Starlink because I am not away from connectivity more than 1 week, but if it was more I will.

Socializing? a must for me, any new port allows me to explore the area, the food, and, meeting new people, after all that is why I cruise (travel by boat)

Sometimes I enjoy the journey,sometimes I enjoy the destination.

“For as long it is fun"

[thomm225]

For the first 5 years or so of owning this Bristol 27 cruising sailboat, I just had VHF, Depth, and a GPS the PO installed in the boat in the 90's.

I sailed within 100 miles of my Marina mostly in Chesapeake Bay while learning the boat.

The PO also left behind an old foldout chart for the Bay from the 1990's. I used that also for the first 5 years or so.

This is the first boat out of the 12 boats or so that I have owned that had any electronics at all onboard or a compass for that matter. So, it was great having a GPS and a Chart! (plus, I bought a couple Suunto handheld compasses after a few years to take bearing on ships that I considered crossing in front of)

After spending years on CF and everyone talking about chart plotters, I finally built one but mainly just used it to aid in anchoring in shallow water when I would sail so for up a creek there were no more channel markers.

After a few close calls with ships at night, I added AIS which I fed into the chart plotter from the SH GX 2200 VHF via an RS485 USB serial adapter. The radio had 0183 NMEA which connected to the adapter.

I used a flip phone until 2020.

[Mike OReilly]

Perhaps because I am poor in cash, and I have limited mechanical/electrical skills, I gravitate to onboard systems that are either simple, or are highly reliable: manual winches and windlass, windvane, composting head, standard batteries, etc... To me, my boat has all the modern conveniences I currently need, but most here would say it's missing a lot of 'stuff.'

But I'm no luddite, and like our modern technology. I love my electric depth sounder, radar and chartplotter(s). Although, with the latter tool, I never fully trust what it is showing. Although I've cruised without one, I do like our fridge -- keeps the beer nicely chilled. The electric tiller pilot is awesome, although we use a windvane for distance cruising. And stuff like the anemometer, VHF, AIS(Rx), pressure water, etc... are nice to have, but definitely lower on the needs list.

As for Internet access, I like being able to get my email, receive weather forecasts, and even search the Net when needed. And of course, I love being able to check in on CF. But where I cruise, we're often outside of cell/data range.

If I could afford Starlink, I probably would get it. But it's way too expensive for me. I have had the joy of cruising with a friend who does have Starlink. It was great to tie up beside him and get full Internet access from places with no sniff of cell service around.

As the saying goes: these are my good old days. It's great to look back to see how things were done. There are lessons to be learned, and earned wisdom to be guided by. Looking back is a great way to balance wants vs needs. But I don't want to live in the past.

[rbrazil]

Very well thought out post. Thanks for writing. You’ve put a lot of time and effort into a fairly sensitive subject. Your words should come as an attachment to all new gear purchased by fellow cruisers. Imagine; someone opens the box to their shiny new Starlink, grabs the first piece of paper on top and reads your words of wisdom vs. opening said shiny box, hooking up Starlink and saying, “Hey, look! Lets watch this episode of Seinfeld!”

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Perhaps because I am poor in cash, and I have limited mechanical/electrical skills, I gravitate to onboard systems that are either simple, or are highly reliable: manual winches and windlass, windvane, composting head, standard batteries, etc... To me, my boat has all the modern conveniences I currently need, but most here would say it's missing a lot of 'stuff.'

But I'm no luddite, and like our modern technology. I love my electric depth sounder, radar and chartplotter(s). Although, with the latter tool, I never fully trust what it is showing. Although I've cruised without one, I do like our fridge -- keeps the beer nicely chilled. The electric tiller pilot is awesome, although we use a windvane for distance cruising. And stuff like the anemometer, VHF, AIS(Rx), pressure water, etc... are nice to have, but definitely lower on the needs list.

As for Internet access, I like being able to get my email, receive weather forecasts, and even search the Net when needed. And of course, I love being able to check in on CF. But where I cruise, we're often outside of cell/data range.

If I could afford Starlink, I probably would get it. But it's way too expensive for me. I have had the joy of cruising with a friend who does have Starlink. It was great to tie up beside him and get full Internet access from places with no sniff of cell service around.

As the saying goes: these are my good old days. It's great to look back to see how things were done. There are lessons to be learned, and earned wisdom to be guided by. Looking back is a great way to balance wants vs needs. But I don't want to live in the past.

I was reflecting on this after I dropped this post online. Over the last 6-mos, I've been on VHF Nets or email equivalent with 400 or so boats cruising south of the border, some into Panama and then the Caribbean. I'd guess roughly 10% have had some flavor of charging/battery issue that altered their plans.

For cruising away from yachting centers (or on tight budgets), you have to make a decision along the continuum of need vs want. I think s lot of cruising boats these days leave with a lot of "want" kit supported by tons of solar, LFP batteries, hi-output alternators, generators, and a lot of Victron kit. It's cool stuff but not as reliable as old school setups. What's "want" vs "need?" It's a personal decision. Freezers, ice makers, washing machine, induction/microwave, A/C, etc. Lost goes on.

Just depends on what your expectations are. I have a full solar/LFP setup and it's now working pretty well, but it was a difficult transition to get it running properly, and it still needs care and feeding to make sure I have enough power. A friend has a boat roughly size of mine - a very knowledgeable owner. He has a large frame Leece Neville alternator and a large AGM bank. Simple and flawless. He can't go days without running the engines but it can be fixed anywhere on the planet.

Choices.....

[sailorboy1]

There isn't really a lot of reasons cruisers have to give up conveniences. They are all available on boats of reasonable size or upper 30s feet. They wouldn't be nice maybe as land, but they are pretty all doable nowdays as Starlink was the last piece

There is a downside, cruisers as an overall group aren't as sociable as before. Since are, but it takes more work.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I was reflecting on this after I dropped this post online. Over the last 6-mos, I've been on VHF Nets or email equivalent with 400 or so boats cruising south of the border, some into Panama and then the Caribbean. I'd guess roughly 10% have had some flavor of charging/battery issue that altered their plans.

For cruising away from yachting centers (or on tight budgets), you have to make a decision along the continuum of need vs want. I think s lot of cruising boats these days leave with a lot of "want" kit supported by tons of solar, LFP batteries, hi-output alternators, generators, and a lot of Victron kit. It's cool stuff but not as reliable as old school setups. What's "want" vs "need?" It's a personal decision. Freezers, ice makers, washing machine, induction/microwave, A/C, etc. Lost goes on.

Just depends on what your expectations are. I have a full solar/LFP setup and it's now working pretty well, but it was a difficult transition to get it running properly, and it still needs care and feeding to make sure I have enough power. A friend has a boat roughly size of mine - a very knowledgeable owner. He has a large frame Leece Neville alternator and a large AGM bank. Simple and flawless. He can't go days without running the engines but it can be fixed anywhere on the planet.

Choices.....

Systems design and what to have onboard will definitely depend on what a given owner can maintain and repair. And as you have more systems on board, it becomes important to know which ones are critical, which ones have a backup or a work around for failure, and which ones can be lived without for a while until an opportunity for repair arises. Being willing to mark a system as Inop and keep going can make a big difference compared to insisting on keeping everything working at all times regardless of how easily it can be lived without.

[Kettlewell]

Being willing to mark a system as Inop and keep going can make a big difference compared to insisting on keeping everything working at all times regardless of how easily it can be lived without.

I've run into lots of cruisers stuck in harbor waiting for parts, and I've been there myself. The more complicated the systems the more that can and will go wrong eventually, and the more likely you will be waiting for parts. Plus, I've run into people having to travel long distances out of their way to get to some technician who can fix something, often electronic and complex, that can't be done onboard by the average boater. OTOH, some cruisers really enjoy installing and maintaining all the gizmos, and I suspect they are perfectly happy fiddling with their various projects. Still, I stand by my observation in another thread that maintenance (after health and family) is the #1 reason people quit cruising.

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I've run into lots of cruisers stuck in harbor waiting for parts, and I've been there myself. The more complicated the systems the more that can and will go wrong eventually, and the more likely you will be waiting for parts. Plus, I've run into people having to travel long distances out of their way to get to some technician who can fix something, often electronic and complex, that can't be done onboard by the average boater. OTOH, some cruisers really enjoy installing and maintaining all the gizmos, and I suspect they are perfectly happy fiddling with their various projects. Still, I stand by my observation in another thread that maintenance (after health and family) is the #1 reason people quit cruising.

A lesson well learned after i spent a while in South America with a bust boat where getting anything can be a nightmare, Now the boat is brimming with raspberry pi & related electro gizmos which are great fun & extremely useful, but after that 99% of the toys can break & the boat will still be self sufficient & cross oceans safely
Really not fun sitting for weeks anchored in a dirty port waiting for an overnight delivery when everyone else is having barbecues out in the islands

Would be nice to turn it all off & do an ocean like way back in the day, but that's just increasing the odds against you too much to handle imho.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I've run into lots of cruisers stuck in harbor waiting for parts, and I've been there myself. The more complicated the systems the more that can and will go wrong eventually, and the more likely you will be waiting for parts. Plus, I've run into people having to travel long distances out of their way to get to some technician who can fix something, often electronic and complex, that can't be done onboard by the average boater. OTOH, some cruisers really enjoy installing and maintaining all the gizmos, and I suspect they are perfectly happy fiddling with their various projects. Still, I stand by my observation in another thread that maintenance (after health and family) is the #1 reason people quit cruising.

That's one of the reasons why as much as I have some complexity on my boat, I tend to stick to systems I can install myself. If I can spec it out and install it, then in most situations I'll be able to fix it provided parts are available.

We're not bluewater cruisers, so there are work-arounds for plenty of system failures. For example, if the inverter fails, it gets bypassed and we run the generator more often until I can fix it. If the generator fails and we need to use systems that can't run from the inverter, we marina hop and plug in at night while I source parts.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I've run into lots of cruisers stuck in harbor waiting for parts, and I've been there myself. The more complicated the systems the more that can and will go wrong eventually, and the more likely you will be waiting for parts. Plus, I've run into people having to travel long distances out of their way to get to some technician who can fix something, often electronic and complex, that can't be done onboard by the average boater. OTOH, some cruisers really enjoy installing and maintaining all the gizmos, and I suspect they are perfectly happy fiddling with their various projects. Still, I stand by my observation in another thread that maintenance (after health and family) is the #1 reason people quit cruising.

Maintenance may be the reason folks quit cruising this day and age, but all the cruisers I knew in the 90's were big on doing their own maintenance.

They always preached "know your boat."

Maybe things have just gotten too technical for many people today, or it's that the boats are so loaded with the latest gadgets.

Many today want all the modern conveniences on their boats but don't know how to maintain them and forget that a tech or repair man may not be close by after they start cruising.

An example is a chart plotter. It's pretty easy to build a chart plotter using an old computer or a very inexpensive Raspberry Pi Computer plus OpenCPN, but you do need some computer/technical knowhow. Most spend lots of money just for their electronics onboard.

The same with solar for charging your batteries. Solar is really very straight forward and quite fun to troubleshoot most times if you have some electrical or electronic troubleshooting skills.

I like it because it goes back to the days of straight up electronics. You do need a backup controller though because it's very doubtful you could fix one of those yourself.

Also, today many boats have heat and air conditioning, and it's rare the Skipper or crew know much about maintaining those.

For those cruising in Florida in Summer, air conditioning is almost a must have item especially along the Gulf Coast in July, August, and early September.

If I ever do make it back down there to the Gulf Coast sailing on my boat, it will be during the Spring.

And I'll need a small freeze/frig before I go.