Cost of Cruising

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by StuM

Your categories look like a good way of analysing the cost, but I would take fuel and clearing in out of there and make them separate budget categories. Unlike maintenance/upgrade costs which should be similar for similar boats, those items are more specific to where/how you cruise.

OK, got it
Just trying to get a handle on costs, this is by no means a good and complete list, it was just what I could think of, but as I have not cruised it's hard to come up with a list. Sort of hard to know, what you don't know.

[TacomaSailor]

Someone said:
"Those numbers are ridiculous. It kinda looks like you folks just like to spend lots of money on your boats. "

I'll just comment on my numbers

$99 - Replace dead Group 27 diesel start battery
Maybe I should learn to hand crank my 50 HP 4-cylinder diesel?

$2,000 - replace Yanmar Heat Exchanger & Exhaust Manifold
$320 - replace starter and Soelenoid
The parts were 21 years old with 2800 hours on them. The heat exchanger was corroded at both ends and the mixing elbow was letting saltwater drain back into the exhaust manifold and then into the cylinders. Was there a way to not replace them? Maybe get rid of the diesel at the same time?

$3,500 - replace non-functional 20-year old autopilot. I single hand a LOT and cannot manage a 40' 23,000# boat without a very good autopilot

$550 - replace a 14-year old water heater. We live on the boat full time - maybe we should live without hot water?

$5,800 - replace 15-year old mainsail that had seen a lot of tropical sun. The material around the headboard, top of the luff, and the clew was rotten. Sure, I could have spent less money on the sail but if I get another 15-years because of the high quality material I will be very happy.

$520 - two gallons Micron paint
$650 - yard fees to paint boat
The last bottom job lasted 4-years. Maybe I should not use bottom paint?

$700 - replace prop shaft and 21-year old cutlass bearing
Again, maybe I should go without a prop or engine?

$155 - One Yanmar motor mount
The bolt in the motor mount was sheared off and the engine was badly cocked thus mis-aligning the prop shaft. Again, should I just get rid of the engine?

$250 - replace all the hoses and hose clamps in the engine coolant system
Many of the hoses and clamps were over 15-years old and had over 2,000 hours on them. Should I wait till they break?

$350 - repair 15-year old Genoa
The clew eyelet was torn loose and the UV protection had come loose. Maybe I should just do without the sail? I had been hand repairing the pieces for years but it was time for a pro to do the job and make it last.

$500 - replace 15-year old Halyards that had spent 4-years in the tropical sun and six-years in the San Diego sun
Again, who needs those white rags hoisted or controlled?

$100 - Propane
We live on the boat full time - maybe we should not cook or should we install an electric cooktop?

$120 - Replace dead AC shore power connection and 20-year old cable
We live aboard full time but probably do not need any 120V AC - right?

$220 - Replace 21-year old shoe/plate that connects the skeg/rudder
I suppose I did not need to do this - I could have let the old rusty one stay in place and when it rotted through the rudder would have fallen off. But, since I don't have sails (see above) or an engine (see above) why do I need a rudder?

$38 - Pressure switch for Shurflow house water pump
We live aboard but there is probably no real reason we need running water.

I am hard pressed to find any item in my list (with the exception of the XM antenna) that was not necessary to keep the boat functional.

What item that I replaced or repaired could I do without?

I am a numbers guy and computer geek. I have a very nice Boat Maintenance database on the boat's computer. It is easy and convenient to record every penny I spend and every repair or maintenance item. The database has great reporting capabilities. Thus, I can itemize the pennies we spend.

I think a lot of folks would be shocked if they really itemized their boat expenses.

My previous list forgot to mention the $700 annual cost for a diver to clean the bottom every three weeks.

My numbers since we left to go cruising in August 2000 average about $1,200/month for maintenance and upgrades. That does not include fuel, insurance, marina fees, immigration, port captains.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

Someone said:
"Those numbers are ridiculous. It kinda looks like you folks just like to spend lots of money on your boats. "

I'll just comment on my numbers

$2,000 - replace Yanmar Heat Exchanger & Exhaust Manifold
$320 - replace starter and Soelenoid
The parts were 21 years old with 2800 hours on them. The heat exchanger was corroded at both ends and the mixing elbow was letting saltwater drain back into the exhaust manifold and then into the cylinders. Was there a way to not replace them? Maybe get rid of the diesel at the same time?

$3,500 - replace non-functional 20-year old autopilot. I single hand a LOT and cannot manage a 40' 23,000# boat without a very good autopilot

$550 - replace a 14-year old water heater. We live on the boat full time - maybe we should live without hot water?

$5,800 - replace 15-year old mainsail that had seen a lot of tropical sun. The material around the headboard, top of the luff, and the clew was rotten. Sure, I could have spent less money on the sail but if I get another 15-years because of the high quality material I will be very happy.

$520 - two gallons Micron paint
$650 - yard fees to paint boat
The last bottom job lasted 4-years. Maybe I should not use bottom paint?

$700 - replace prop shaft and 21-year old cutlass bearing
Again, maybe I should go without a prop or engine?

$155 - One Yanmar motor mount
The bolt in the motor mount was sheared off and the engine was badly cocked thus mis-aligning the prop shaft. Again, should I just get rid of the engine?

$250 - replace all the hoses and hose clamps in the engine coolant system
Many of the hoses and clamps were over 15-years old and had over 2,000 hours on them. Should I wait till they break?

$350 - repair 15-year old Genoa
The clew eyelet was torn loose and the UV protection had come loose. Maybe I should just do without the sail? I had been hand repairing the pieces for years but it was time for a pro to do the job and make it last.

$500 - replace 15-year old Halyards that had spent 4-years in the tropical sun and six-years in the San Diego sun
Again, who needs those white rags hoisted or controlled?

$100 - Propane
We live on the boat full time - maybe we should not cook or should we install an electric cooktop?

$120 - Replace dead AC shore power connection and 20-year old cable
We live aboard full time but probably do not need any 120V AC - right?

$220 - Replace 21-year old shoe/plate that connects the skeg/rudder
I suppose I did not need to do this - I could have let the old rusty one stay in place and when it rotted through the rudder would have fallen off. But, since I don't have sails (see above) or an engine (see above) why do I need a rudder?

$38 - Pressure switch for Shurflow house water pump
We live aboard but there is probably no real reason we need running water.

I am hard pressed to find any item in my list (with the exception of the XM antenna) that was not necessary to keep the boat functional.

What item that I replaced or repaired could I do without?

Looks like you got ripped off on the Micron paint. I can get Micron CSC for $235 even at West Marine for my 3 year paint job.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Yeah I'm starting to get the idea that for a 40 ish ft 20 yr old boat in good condition with almost all the systems less than three yrs old, that it would be prudent to put back 1 grand a month for maintenance, and have a 25K or so Oh Sh** fund, that is there to cover a dismasting, blown engine kind of emergency. Think of it as insurance.

I think the average cruising boat is a 35 to 45 ft boat, and is around 20 yrs old?

A64pilot,

Dismastings are rare in the cruising fleet, but when ours happened in '96, the costs for mast, rigging, running rigging, new radar, new vhf antenna, new furler, main and genoa, repair bow pulpit, replace lifelines, etc., cost about 30k USD for a 36 ft. boat, done here in Oz. As it was, the s**t fund wouldn't have covered it, would have needed to be more than 25 K.

Some will tell us he could do it cheaper, but used stuff simply wasn't available here, and we did all the work ourselves. Given what you've said of your personality, you'd want to do the job right. Also, stayed in a marina while the work was continuing.

It was an expensive exercise, all told, but still less than what insurance costs for when we left the US till then would have been.

Ann

[El Pinguino]

I forgot to add.... exhaust elbow ( 1999 and 2014) and engine mounts ( 2009).
Oh and also the calorifier I had airfreighted out to Punta Arenas in 2007.

The little stuff I haven't included - like new nav lights, leds in the cabin, etc.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Those numbers are ridiculous.

It kinda looks like you folks just like to spend lots of money on your boats.

One guy says he's spending 10k a year for weekend sailing. One guy has a new XM Radio Antenna on his list. One guy is concerned about brightwork. Funny stuff!

I sail my boat more than most around here and I have spent maybe $25.00 a trip.

I lost a tiller autopilot overboard so that was around $400.00.

I bought two more solar panels yet to be used for $80.00.

I usually have to buy a couple gallons of gas before each trip so that's maybe $6.00.

Then there's the beer, water, apples, pork and beans, bait for fresh fish, etc

That's about it.

WOW... I was about to say "Thats all he spent?"

BTW - IMO that hold fast guy was a thief. If what he did he really did, boarding and staying on a boat that was not his and for permission he did not have... I would have had him arrested and sued his ass. Just because he's some has-been IT hotshot in 2008 does not make him thoughtful and accountable for his actions. He's not behaving like an adult should. If thing did not happen as he portrayed then he is liar. If he "got one over on the guy" then he is a thief and a liar. Besides, I think I want a little more for my boat life than to sht in a bucket and eat canned beans and rice.

FYI, since purchasing our boat we have spent over 80K on the refit and we have not even replaced the engine or the sails yet, both of which are serviceable but not ready for an extended ocean passage. Yo may look at the figure and have a cow but IMO the best money spent was spent doing crap myself. The long hard learning curve is humbling and humiliating at times but my wife and I now know every single nook and cranny of our boat and we can fix anything and everything on our boat. Except large engine repairs.

[TacomaSailor]

Some Idiot said:

"My numbers since we left to go cruising in August 2000 average about $1,200/month for maintenance and upgrades. That does not include fuel, insurance, marina fees, immigration, port captains."

I may be a computer geek and can produce DB reports but I can't read them so well.

That $1,200/month included marina fees and slip rental of $480/month in Puget Sound from Sept 2004 thru August 2010 and $750/month here in San Diego. The maintenance and upgrade expense is more like $600/month while cruising and $500/month while in the states.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by zboss

WOW... I was about to say "Thats all he spent?"

BTW - IMO that hold fast guy was a thief. If what he did he really did, boarding and staying on a boat that was not his and for permission he did not have... I would have had him arrested and sued his ass. Just because he's some has-been IT hotshot in 2008 does not make him thoughtful and accountable for his actions. He's not behaving like an adult should. If thing did not happen as he portrayed then he is liar. If he "got one over on the guy" then he is a thief and a liar. Besides, I think I want a little more for my boat life than to sht in a bucket and eat canned beans and rice.

FYI, since purchasing our boat we have spent over 80K on the refit and we have not even replaced the engine or the sails yet, both of which are serviceable but not ready for an extended ocean passage.

Actually, the young lady Lisa I think was her name, took her crap while hanging off the lifelines. Another good reason for ridged lifelines.

And the rice is probably more nutritious than much of the crap you can buy at you average grocery store. The beans also but maybe not canned beans. I didn't see any cans that they were eating out of anyway.

You wanna spend 80K on a refit that's you business and more power to you. I plan on doing my first cruise back to the Gulf Coast to New Orleans via the lake, then to the Caribbean in the boat I have now that I paid $2,000 for. Hopefully I'll have a radar, an EPIRB, and AIS installed by then plus maybe SSB. All of which will be installed on my next boat.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by thomm225

the boat I have now that I paid $2,000 for. Hopefully I'll have a radar, EPIRB, and AIS installed by then plus maybe SSB.

You be careful you don't go over-capitalising that boat of yours... you know second hand electronics aren't worth squat.....

[carstenb]

I'll try to answer your question, although our boat has yet to make a passage.

We have a 2006 40 foot Jeanneau (Sun Fast). We've done quite a bit of upgrades, getting her ready for long term cruising/live-aboard, but that doesn't count here.

Every year we do all the usual engine work, impeller, filters, oil chnage etc - so far nothing serious with the engine. General opinion amongst those who know (guys who make their living repairing diesel engines) is that unless you screw up, you'll get 20+ years out of your diesel before having to do something major

Our sails will need to be replaced before we go (they will be 10 years old) so that will be about $12-15k (North sails).

Our rigging is still in excellent shape (checked by a very well respected rigger last summer) so I expect another 5+ years from them (I realize that serious cruising will put a lot more wear on them)

We generally sail 1500 to 2000nm each season. I do virtually all work myself. Bottom paint, anodes, engine filters/impeller etc, some new lines, and just about everything else that is what I would term "regular maintenance" runs us about $2k per year (haul out included).

On another thread, I wrote we are planning to put about $1000 per month aside for the boat. Some feel that is a lot - but that includes everything: new sails, serious engine work, serious rigging work etc.

I certainly hope it is too much, time will tell.

Depending on what you define as "oh ****!" instances will mean your kitty for this will be larger (or smaller). New sails are not "Oh ****" because you know that expense will come. When? depends on how much you sail upwind and how good you are at trimming your sails. Are you religious about covering your sails when you anchor or lie in a marina? (we have a sock for our genny - and we cover our sails every time we stop for the night). Do you turn your sheets regularly (to avoid them wearing/chafing at the same point?)

Their are a lot of variables involved here - including which area of the world you'll be sailing in

Sorry for the long answer - but I'm not sure there is a definitive one

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

chuckr,
Where are your five yrs cost of cruising located?

Thanks

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ta-118781.html


We are currently in the midst of updating it with costs from this year. By the way our freshwater pump stopped working in Bar Montenegro and it cost us 206 Euros or about $275 USD. Stuff happens.

By the way our first short cruise was when i was still working and we took a week to go to the Bahamas and on our 3rd day got hit by lightening. Took out a lot but fortunately we were covered by insurance but the bill was over $30k.

Any questions please let us know.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

You be careful you don't go over-capitalising that boat of yours... you know second hand electronics aren't worth squat.....

I don't buy second hand electronics for boats. I've been a tech/manager of techs too long for that. Even our multimillion dollar flight simulators are affected by the salt air here in Norfolk.

The boat was $2,000.

The other items were new:

8 ounce main $1550

4 stroke outboard extra long shaft outboard $1500

Simrad Tiller Autopilot $450.00

Solar Panels around $150 for 100 watts

Solar Controller $12.00 (keeps the voltage to the batteries at around 14.42 volts) plus a spare for $12.00 more

Micron CSC bottom paint $235.00

AC Inverters, a 400 watt $50.00, 1500 watt $80.00 (I believe)

Verizon Jetpack for internet $70.00, Laptop I already had $0.00, etc

The boat will probably outlast the rest.

It's my 12th boat (bought in June 2011), two of the 12 were new. You start seeing how really strong a fiberglass boat can be. 4 of the boats had no engines though just sails. No electronics either for that matter. The were just used for racing.

[boatman61]

To be honest.. to me this is a bit like a 66yr old smoker trying to calculate how much money he'd have in the bank if he'd only smoked 10/day instead of 30.. or better yet.. none at all.
Then how much he could save in the twilight of his life if he cut down now.. Totally Bludi Futile..
If I ever 'thought' of it I'd never have owned a boat.. and definitely would not have delivered at least half the boats I have.
Think I spent to many of my formative years under the influences of India and Pakistan.. then the '60's' came along...
Things will work out.. You'll see... OMmmmmmmmmmmm

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

A64pilot,

Dismastings are rare in the cruising fleet, but when ours happened in '96, the costs for mast, rigging, running rigging, new radar, new vhf antenna, new furler, main and genoa, repair bow pulpit, replace lifelines, etc., cost about 30k USD for a 36 ft. boat, done here in Oz. As it was, the s**t fund wouldn't have covered it, would have needed to be more than 25 K.

Some will tell us he could do it cheaper, but used stuff simply wasn't available here, and we did all the work ourselves. Given what you've said of your personality, you'd want to do the job right. Also, stayed in a marina while the work was continuing.

It was an expensive exercise, all told, but still less than what insurance costs for when we left the US till then would have been.

Ann

Got it,
I'm sure you didn't plan on being dismasted, but you were able to cover the expenses, if you didn't have the funds to do so, well the outcome may have been different or at least more painful. I hope to be able to cover the unlikely or most of it anyway, or at least have a plan.
I'm struggling with the insurance thing myself, I don't insure my little airplane, cars etc, but do the house. I see insurance as a losing proposition, but for the house, well at my age I couldn't replace that so it's insured.
Currently boat is insured as I owed money on it, but now it's paid off, so I'll have to give that some thought.

[Group9]

These threads are entertaining to read, but in the end they seem to have about as much validity as a thread discussing, "How much does it take to live on land?", "How much maintenance will I have to do on my house in the next five years?", "What does it cost operate a car for a year?", "What does it cost to go on vacation?" or "How much does a wedding for your daughter cost?".

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Carry on!