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Old 25-09-2010, 12:54   #1
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Capsizing Boats - Why ?

with all the brains designers are suppost to have why do boat captize
I know to some this is a stupid question but to some one like me it is a no brainer for a boat to captize or turn over sound so stupid. first of all i do have a mechanical engineering degree so i am not stupid. now to get to my point i can think of many ways to stop a boat from truning over or captizing. their are many ways to either hoist up an uninflater air blatter to the top of the mast during a storm. especially one like on my diving bc that is self inflating when it becomes submerged!!!! another is to build a long tube bladder that can be raised up to top of boat mast this tube can be attatched to top of mast and bottom of mast one long tube attacthed to top of mast then running down to bottom of mast. their are several other ideas of using bladders on mast to inflate. but basics common since is that when the boat it being flipped or truned over especiall a catamaran the mast with inflated bladder will be inflated and this will stop boat from truning over upside down. yes the boat will be on it's side shortly untll the next wave rights it but surely the next wave will right it. if not it is a simple matter of using a rope attached to a parachute and using the current to pull the boat back over. appreciate any comment or some one with experience with captize boats responding to my query??
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Old 25-09-2010, 12:59   #2
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Check out the corsair sight they played with some of your ideas
http://www.f-boat.com/pages/backgrou...zearticle.html
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Old 25-09-2010, 13:00   #3
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dont forget to factor in windage and water drag and forces of nature..
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Old 25-09-2010, 13:15   #4
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Captized: baptism by capsizing?

Maybe such boats need to be baptized.
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Old 25-09-2010, 17:03   #5
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is this removing the captain?
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Old 25-09-2010, 17:17   #6
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good idea
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Old 25-09-2010, 17:36   #7
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I think the ideas you have about an inflatable bladder are good ones but ultimately the solution will be dictated by money. Also, the frequency a catamaran capsizes is very low with respect to the number of cats on the water and time under sail.

Best and first option is to avoid bad weather whenever possible. Second course of action would be to reef appropriately as dictated by wind, wave conditions and the design of the boat. Third would be to deploy a sea anchor/chute to stabilize the boat in relation to high seas.

Many factors need to be resolved if you were to make a self-righting inflation device at the tip or the length of a mast. First is weight and size; would the pre-deployed package be very heavy or interfere with sails or sail handling? At what point would it deploy? What is the stress on the mast while the cat is in the half-righted position? How about those stresses in high seas? There's probably a whole lot more I haven't thought about here.

Cats typically float (a discussion in other places in this forum) which make them very survivable in the event of capsizing. If they can be righted then they can be repaired and reused.

BTW, this will probably turn into a love cats/hate cats discussion so be forewarned.
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Old 25-09-2010, 18:22   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmason View Post
I think the ideas you have about an inflatable bladder are good ones but ultimately the solution will be dictated by money. Also, the frequency a catamaran capsizes is very low with respect to the number of cats on the water and time under sail.
How many cruisers buy an eprib and how many use it? As a cruiser you buy a lot of stuff that you hope never to use, and i think that a floatation device for the mast will be happily added to all the rest.
As for mono vs. cat thing, I would be happy to have this on a mono or cat, in case of a mono, I would be happy if some thing will help the keel...
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Old 25-09-2010, 18:26   #9
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Pickles cheated

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
is this removing the captain?
by editing the title. "Captizing" in the initial post is a useful, new word, particularly for sailing dinghies and multi-hulls.
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Old 25-09-2010, 18:29   #10
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Or you could just sail the boat within limits.
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Old 25-09-2010, 19:01   #11
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Many boats lose the stick when capsizing. So a mast bladder is a so so idea only.

But you can have an inflatable on the cabin top and if you capsize the inflatable will help the boat come back.

With a cat the forces on the mast could break it too, remember the stick is guaranteed for compression not side loads. So here I think it might work out great or not at all - cat and rig depending.

On a tri this could work fine.

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Old 25-09-2010, 19:24   #12
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Why are the sticks lost other then extreme load. Could it be that the spreaders are not locked in well. I have looked at this and it seems that most spreaders are locked in with hose clamps and wire. They would not likely go up as the tension would increase but most rigs have little to stop the spreader from loosening by down ward movement. Lose the spreader lose the rig. Wonder why that isn't discussed more seems critical.
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Old 25-09-2010, 19:31   #13
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Perhaps more training would help. Or mentoring with experienced sailors. This regards multihulls, mostly. I know I've been surprised when racing large cats, with experts, that they warn about flipping at times when I hadn't considered it possible. Since warning signs are not obvious to the inexperienced, and the terminal behavior of multi- is far from seat-of-the pants, one apparently needs to know the conditions. Nor is it reasonable or common to get at-sea experience at the edge of stability. This would be a training issue. Many cruisers, multi- and mono-, are woefully undertrained for hazard conditions.

Experienced monohull sailors tend to get a better feel for the hazards of monohulls at the edge of stability as what racer has not dipped the masthead in the sea a few times?

Much better to prevent overturning than to try to recover. It makes such a mess of the galley.
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Old 25-09-2010, 21:45   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
by editing the title. "Captizing" in the initial post is a useful, new word, particularly for sailing dinghies and multi-hulls.
The OP did not edit the title - I did. Titles are, essentially, the face Cruisers Forum presents to the public, and I prefer that that face be "spotless."

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Old 25-09-2010, 22:31   #15
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Thanks alot, Tao. You have made my posts nonsensical.
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