Buying a '70s or '80s sailboat - what to look for

[cAmstar]

Hey All,

Curious as to what i should be generally looking for when buying a used 1970s or 1980s sailboat. My thoughts are:

- Fiberglass
- Engine

Anything else? Even though my boat budget is low (approx. USD 10,000), i plan to get a survey done. Will the survey adequately pick up most issues? Will the survey be written in a manner that a newbie can digest easily?

Also, what about pricing. Are there any resources that help one determine whether the price is fair? Does the surveyor offer any opinion on that as part of the survey? Are most USA surveyors the same from state-to-state?

I spent a lot of time sailing when i was a youth but have never purchased a boat and I'm a bit out of my element.

Thanks in advance.

[thomm225]

One thing to keep in mind is that the diesels on these boats are getting very old and if they fail are expensive to replace.

I have a 1974 Bristol 27 and after the old diesel failed I replaced it with a new 5 hp 4 stroke outboard. I was fortunate the boat was small enough that an outboard could power it if needed.

Bought the boat is 2011 for $2,000.

[Cheechako]

The 70's boats had less construction knowledge applied. Especially to fiberglassing techniques. Many had plywood core, chopper gun glassing or other things done commonly. For that reason, (as a generalism!) I feel that 80's boats are better. But there should be some good examples from the better makers out there from the 70's also.

You want to find a boat with an engine that is/was common. like Perkins, Yanmar etc. There were some oddball engines that are no longer serviced with parts like Faryman, Saab etc etc.

Another thing to watch for are tanks. They often fail, especially if below the floor boards. Some you cant get out without destroying part of the interior.

Boats that old are getting hard to sell, bargain hard on a good one. I can see you readily getting into one for $10k or less that is 35 ft or less.

Ericson, Tartan, Islander, Ranger etc were pretty well done back then. Every maker has some quirks. Read up on line when you find on you like. See their typical faults.

[MicHughV]

finding insurance for an old boat is becoming difficult.....

the boat broker can usually provide you with a list of " solds"....ie, other boats similar to the one you want ...for comparison...shop around online...do your own research....the broker's job is to sell you the boat only....

A boat selling price does not include sales tax....this is extra, depending on which State you buy the boat. If you haul the boat for the surveyor to inspect the bottom ....as you should...the cost will be borne by you..check the bottom paint while the boat is out, this will let you know when the next one is due....this is becoming quite expensive these days...

A survey will tell you the problems with a boat, but not how to fix it....that's up to you...this could mean a reduced price....sharpen your negotiating skills..read the survey thoroughly and find things that will cost YOU money to fix, repair or replace.

no two surveyors are the same....some specialize in sailboats..other's in powerboats, etc...some are very good, some ok, and some horrible, best to ask around and get references...survey prices are also random....a good surveyor will be expensive...especially if this requires an out of town trip..

You, yourself, should also look around. Look for the obvious, condition of sails, rig, various line..etc....the engine is always a ???....find the maintenance records if any....pull the dipstick, check the water filter, etc...most all common sense things......
If the boat has been sitting for a long time, chances are it will require attention.

A $10,000 boat is not likely to have much in the line of electronics.

If you end buying the budget, you should budget....at a minimum....20% of the selling price to pay for things you'll end up fixing, repairing or replacing.

If $10K is all you have, you should be looking at $8K boats....

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by cAmstar

Hey All,

Curious as to what i should be generally looking for when buying a used 1970s or 1980s sailboat. My thoughts are:

- Fiberglass
- Engine

Anything else? Even though my boat budget is low (approx. USD 10,000), i plan to get a survey done. Will the survey adequately pick up most issues? Will the survey be written in a manner that a newbie can digest easily?

Also, what about pricing. Are there any resources that help one determine whether the price is fair? Does the surveyor offer any opinion on that as part of the survey? Are most USA surveyors the same from state-to-state?

I spent a lot of time sailing when i was a youth but have never purchased a boat and I'm a bit out of my element.

Thanks in advance.

As I shop til I drop, I have found this, shared many times on this forum, to be a fantastic resource in ruling out boats, so that I don't end up dropping $$$$$ into a floating money pit.

Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection

I suspect this is going to be a popular thread, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this link several times more over the coming months.

[MicHughV]

I have that Marine Survey 101....it's an excellent read...for newbie and pro alike..

[Oeanda]

Go over that survey 101 list, it’s very good. But don’t let the massive number of potential issues scare you too much. If you are willing and able to take on a project boat and embrace the huge learning curve, well good -because that’s what you’re going to be doing.

With a $10,000 budget you can find a nice boat worth saving, and as long as most of the issues aren’t immediate big ticket things requiring instant large cash infusions, you can limp along for years doing DIY. After a couple years you’ll have learned a ton, and can probably sell the boat for about the same as or slightly more than you paid, if you want.

Make sure the boat is usable. Even if it’s held together with duct tape and wire, if you can be fairly confident that it sails and motors and won’t completely blow up anytime soon, then you have something you can work with and learn from.

Don’t get too hung up on purists saying ‘walk away, walk away’ at the drop of a hat. If you’re going to be purist here you’ll need more money….

IMO- Walk the middle path. If possible ask around among people who may know the boat and can give you a rough sense of whether ‘she’s a good boat’ or ‘a piece of s$$t’

[MicHughV]

ya, most sailors were newbies once...what Oeanda says is good sense.....have fun with it.....fix it up as you go...most every boat on the planet requires work, upgrades, etc..reach out to other sailors.....sailors have one thing in common...always willing to help out another sailor...

[Uricanejack]

I have bought two boats of this vintage.
My first one was quite small and cheep.Mid 70s 24ft C&C.
I paid cash, so no loan and, I was able to insure 3 party easily.
I did actually by from a broker, I made a low ball offer which was accepted. Subject to a test sail and inspection.
The broker advised me to have it lifted, with his contacts, it cost about 100 or 15O to lift and pressure wash.
I did my own survey with the brokers help and determined the keel was unlikely to fall off any time soon and there was no obvious signs of problems.
Other than some blisters.
Having never heard of a boat sinking due to blisters. I wasn’t concerned I was buying a dirt cheep old boat.
I had a look at the sails and rig and determine they were old crapy but good enough to have fun. The rig was actually pretty good nick, it had been used as a club race boat.
The outboard was ancient honda, it started, and ran.
The rest of the boat was non existent. There was no interior, we used a camping stove, or BBQ and foam on some plywood bunks I made.
But my kids and I had a lot of fun with it over the next few years.

After I sold it, for peanuts, My wife and daughter wanted a bit more comfortable sailing, they done with camping, and using a bucket.

I looked around for an older but bigger more comfortable boat, I was familiar with. Similar vintage. I was looking for a bigger 30ft C&C or Catalina, I’m familiar with. Or something similar, I found a C&C.

Again I paid cash, no loan, but this time my budget was nearer what might have paid for a nice used car.
So subject to survey, ect. a lift and survey was about 1500 bucks. But I was spending a lot more.
Under 10 000, 1500 is a lot of money, so survey by myself was worth the risk for me.
This boat cost me more than I could just up and walk away from as a write off. So full insurance and a survey were worth while.
I also found out I needed a survey for insurance. Under 26ft I didn’t.
You will need insurance for most if not all docks or lifts ect. Or pretty much anything.

I chose to tag along for the survey, it was a really good learning experience for me, plus I got a really good idea what the boats condition was.
I bought the boat.

My requirements were simple, a working head, a working stove, a at least 5 dry bunks, for 6ft people. A working motor, and good rig with decent sails. Nothing fancy just a simple boat which I my wife and I could sail comfortably locally, plus take our now older kids or friends with us on occasion.
With a little bit more comfortable than camping.
It’s an old boat. It’s pretty basic, I do my own maintainance, I keep it going, I’m not restoring it. It’s got a few issues, some are annoying, none are serious.
It doesn’t cost me much,
I go sailing when I feel like it, I do other stuff when I feel like it.

The most expensive thing is finding somewhere to keep it.

One of the reasons I was comfortable buying a mid 80s boat,
It was a make I was familiar with. I knew had a good reputation locally and is still a popular choice locally.
I had a good idea, what issues to look for.

In particular it was a boat, I knew would work well for my intended use. Fair weather sailing for a few days in an area I am familiar with.
I knew it sails well in the conditions I expected here. I also knew it could handle more,
It’s an older boat, I’ve had for almost 10 years. Which has not cost me much per year.
Right now, my options are, spend a little bit to keep it, sailing and seaworthy.
And enjoy another season or two.
Spend a bit more, get a bit more use,
Or spend enough to sell. Or trade on something a bit more comfortable.

You can by a older boat for 10 g, if you know what your looking for.
Increase your budget to 25g it will be old but maybe nicer.

Or you can budget way more.

[Oeanda]

Oh yeah - If I couldn’t comfortably stand upright inside at least part of the boat, I’d say ‘walk away’. I spent quite a bit of time in a boat that was an inch shorter than me, and I would never ever do that again. But if you’re very young and masochistic then… maybe… for a while (?). But I cringe at the thought. And you’d be cringing literally…

[MicHughV]

yep, finding a place to keep the boat that won't cost you and arm and leg is crucial to your boating happiness...

finally, they day will come when you will want to sell it....your old boat will be even older and trying to find a buyer for it could prove to be problematic...boats are not good investments to start with...some boats sit for years without being sold.

just some things to consider once the gleam leaves your eye...

[Shanachie]

First, make sure you have a dock where you can store it at an affordable price. Depending on where you are and what you have access to, that might cost you 5K a year or more.



Also, check on insurance, as others have mentioned. Some companies are refusing older boats.


There are older boats out there in very good condition. Do not buy anything that needs work. Even a dirty boat should tell you how well it was maintained by the owner.


Restoring a worn-out boat will quickly cost you another 10K or more, in which case you should have bought a nicer boat that didn't need any work at all. So be careful and good luck.

[hpeer]

An insurance broker, if you can find one. Insurance for old boats is getting to be a hassle in some necks of the woods. If you NEED insurance then it may pay to make sure you can GET before inking a deal.

Hopefully not an issue in your case and you can blissfully ignore this.

[Island Time O25]

Look for one which someone have totally refitted in the last 20 years or so. May have to go above your budget but it will be money well spent. As opposed to getting an original unrefitted boat which will require 10s of $K to upgrade or just to keep up.

I found the sweet spot for 70s-80s era at about late 70s to mid 80s. Before then the boats are really antique in many ways (though very rugged) and since that time the quality went downhill as the market could not support mid level production.

There is a boat junkyard near my winter storage. I can often see the difference in those junked boats. Usually it's the boats from late 80s and newer which can't hold up to owners' misuse and abuse. This was a real eye opener for me.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by cAmstar

Hey All,



Curious as to what i should be generally looking for when buying a used 1970s or 1980s sailboat. My thoughts are:



- Fiberglass

- Engine



Anything else? Even though my boat budget is low (approx. USD 10,000), i plan to get a survey done. Will the survey adequately pick up most issues? .

CF member Boatpoker is a surveyor and has good info on his website. Steve d'Antonio also has generous information on buying a boat.

Repairs aren't any cheaper on an expensive boat than a cheap boat, so don't overlook expensive stuff.

Fuel tanks can be expensive to replace depending on size. Keel bolts. Prop shaft that doesn't rotate freely. Upholstery is surprisingly expensive. Rot in structural bulkheads needs careful review. Old rigging and sails.

Old saying is that the most expensive boat to own is sometimes the cheapest to purchase. Yes, definitely a surveyor when yih find The One. But if you have a trusted friend who is experienced with ownership who can be your wingman when shopping, so much the better.

Good luck.

Peter