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Old 26-08-2015, 15:17   #1
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Budget Numbers

I am in the process of buying a boat and am trying to build budget numbers for many things, but am struggling to find information. Examples. Loan info and insurance they want you to fill out a form with a lot of information which to date I don't know all those answers. Hopefully the smart people here can help.

These guesses are based on a 38 to 44 foot boat. No idea if I will need any or all these things, but want to get a good idea before I make an offer to buy. Also know some will have to be done at some point in time so I should put money aside every year for rigging and engine.

Loan data I can calculate. I guessed at about 4.5% interest.
Insurance, no idea. $800 to $1200 a year?
Towing $100 to $150 a year?
Survey, $15 a foot so about $600?
Haulout and launch $150?
Replace standing rigging $4500?
Replace running rigging $1000?
Upgrade electronics. $5000 to $8000?
Replace engine based on 50 hp $15000? (so maybe $2 an hour for replacement funding)
New sails $5000?
Getting new bottom paint $600?
Getting bottom cleaned $100?
Dockage at a Marina in Florida $400 to $800 a month?
Annual maintenance other then above stuff. $1500 to $3000?
Other???????

Please tell me if you have numbers closer then mine or what I missed. Thanks.
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Old 26-08-2015, 16:22   #2
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Re: Budget Numbers

The problem with asking the forum those questions is everybody will have different answers.
You want to know the cost of insurance? Ask the insurance agent you intend to use.
The cost of haul/launch/bottom paint? Ask whatever boatyard you intend to use.
The same for marina fees, etc.
You need to know what it will cost you, not what it cost somebody else.
Costs can vary due to the make/model/age of the boat you are going to buy, and we certainly don't know that.
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Old 26-08-2015, 16:35   #3
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Re: Budget Numbers

You've got a good start with your list, and the numbers seem about right.

The big factor that you haven't considered is what type of sailing are you planning?
For example, if you are racing and you are an aggressive "want to win" type of guy, then you will be up on the high end of your numbers, just based on replacing sails and equipment. If you are club racing and don't care about winning, then you can completely forego years of replacing sails and rigging. This will cut your costs dramatically. Personally, I am an avid racer, but I am not willing to spend thousands on new sails. Mine have been repaired by myself dozens of times. So I have saved many thousands of dollars - but I look pretty funny on the race course.


Even if you are a cruiser, if you are the type that wants to have the best of everything all shiny and new, then add $$$. If you don't care, then subtract $$$.

So I would say to re-evaluate your list with a mind to the intrinsic factors. I know people who are perfectly happy with extremely low budgets, and I know people who are happy with extremely high budgets.
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Old 26-08-2015, 16:39   #4
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Re: Budget Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
The problem with asking the forum those questions is everybody will have different answers.
You want to know the cost of insurance? Ask the insurance agent you intend to use.
The cost of haul/launch/bottom paint? Ask whatever boatyard you intend to use.
The same for marina fees, etc.
You need to know what it will cost you, not what it cost somebody else.
Costs can vary due to the make/model/age of the boat you are going to buy, and we certainly don't know that.
But that doesn't work. I have been to 11 different insurance sites and unless you have the exact boat and fill out a quote form you get nothing. I even called two agents and got lots more of nothing. And if those costs really vary as much as you suggest then nobody can build a budget plan and only really rich folks could be sailing which we all know is not true. Sorry but I think your wrong. I provided my approximate boat size, my sailing location, so I do believe ranges can be suggested. Exact numbers, no, but close ranges which I guessed at can be determined.
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Old 26-08-2015, 16:46   #5
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Re: Budget Numbers

i think you are kinda low across the board...

i would say though, if you are buying a boat that at the outset needs running rigging, sails, standing rigging, nav systems and new engine, it better be real, real cheap or why bother..there are boats in good condition that are decent as is, that you can upgrade and improve over the years.

figure 5-10% of the vessels value for ongoing fixes, repairs and upgrades.

QUOTE=l2ridehd;1900819]I am in the process of buying a boat and am trying to build budget numbers for many things, but am struggling to find information. Examples. Loan info and insurance they want you to fill out a form with a lot of information which to date I don't know all those answers. Hopefully the smart people here can help.

These guesses are based on a 38 to 44 foot boat. No idea if I will need any or all these things, but want to get a good idea before I make an offer to buy. Also know some will have to be done at some point in time so I should put money aside every year for rigging and engine.

Loan data I can calculate. I guessed at about 4.5% interest.
Insurance, no idea. $800 to $1200 a year?
Towing $100 to $150 a year?
Survey, $15 a foot so about $600?
Haulout and launch $150?
Replace standing rigging $4500?
Replace running rigging $1000?
Upgrade electronics. $5000 to $8000?
Replace engine based on 50 hp $15000? (so maybe $2 an hour for replacement funding)
New sails $5000?
Getting new bottom paint $600?
Getting bottom cleaned $100?
Dockage at a Marina in Florida $400 to $800 a month?
Annual maintenance other then above stuff. $1500 to $3000?
Other???????

Please tell me if you have numbers closer then mine or what I missed. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
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Old 26-08-2015, 17:00   #6
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Re: Budget Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by l2ridehd View Post
I am in the process of buying a boat and am trying to build budget numbers for many things, but am struggling to find information. Examples. Loan info and insurance they want you to fill out a form with a lot of information which to date I don't know all those answers. Hopefully the smart people here can help.

These guesses are based on a 38 to 44 foot boat. No idea if I will need any or all these things, but want to get a good idea before I make an offer to buy. Also know some will have to be done at some point in time so I should put money aside every year for rigging and engine.

Loan data I can calculate. I guessed at about 4.5% interest.
Insurance, no idea. $800 to $1200 a year?
Towing $100 to $150 a year?
Survey, $15 a foot so about $600?
Haulout and launch $150?
Replace standing rigging $4500?
Replace running rigging $1000?
Upgrade electronics. $5000 to $8000?
Replace engine based on 50 hp $15000? (so maybe $2 an hour for replacement funding)
New sails $5000?
Getting new bottom paint $600?
Getting bottom cleaned $100?
Dockage at a Marina in Florida $400 to $800 a month?
Annual maintenance other then above stuff. $1500 to $3000?
Other???????

Please tell me if you have numbers closer then mine or what I missed. Thanks.
Can't help on insurance, but it differs if you are just getting liability or full coverage.

BoatUS coverage for towing costs $160/year. If you go bare, it can cost you mega dollars to get towed.. think 4 figures.

Bottom job? Your way low. Same for haul out and launch, and your rigging. Best advice was to check in the area you want to keep the boat. If your contemplating the Tampa Bay area, I can give you some reference suggestions.
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Old 26-08-2015, 17:09   #7
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Re: Budget Numbers

Thanks Mystic

It's not that I am buying a boat with all those items required, but that I want to build an ongoing budget to manage all expenses. As an example standing rigging should be replaced every 10 to 12 years. (a guess) So if it has been done 4 years ago, and a cost estimate is $6000, then I need to take 8 years of life left times 12 or 96 months, divided into $6000 and put away $65 a month so when the times comes I have most of the money. Same with an engine. Again a guess, but 7500 hours it would need a rebuild or replacement. So If I buy a boat with 3000 hours I know I have to put away $3.50 every hour to build a pot of money to have ready when I reach 7500 hours. Again this is just a guess and why I am asking the questions to better fine tune my budget plan.

So my numbers are all guesses and I need some refinement to get closer. If I am off by 10% not a big deal. If I am off by 50% then it's a bad plan.
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Old 26-08-2015, 17:15   #8
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Re: Budget Numbers

Thanks abv3

And yes the Tampa Bay area is a strong contender for a place to keep the boat as is along the Coco Beach area of the East coast as I live about half way between the two. Good news on the towing insurance, will definitely get that. So way low on standing rigging or running rigging? Or both? I based those guesses on numbers I got on other threads of this forum. So what would be a better guess?
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Old 26-08-2015, 17:17   #9
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Re: Budget Numbers

I own a 40ft cat and have priced a few things on your list.

Standing rigging = $7000 (I do all the work, double if hired out)
Sails = $7000(ish)
Insurance = Just liability $800/year Full coverage = 1.5% of hull value/year
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Old 26-08-2015, 17:21   #10
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Re: Budget Numbers

I think you need to narrow your boat choices down to a few and then get quote on actual boats rather than hypotheticals. Your numbers will be much more accurate that way. The numbers all depend on the condition of the boat and how you intend to use it...


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Old 26-08-2015, 17:57   #11
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Re: Budget Numbers

My suggestion is pay cash for a boat not finance, boats are enough of a money sink without an additional note.

I paid $1500 to have a new main for my 30 made, at the time the loft was making a sail for a 47 and it was $4500 if I recall.

Divers in average $2 a foot in general here on the Space Coast.
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Old 26-08-2015, 19:11   #12
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Re: Budget Numbers

All good suggestions, but I like to keep my options open. I will pay cash if the price allows that. And I have narrowed it down and have made an offer on a 42 foot boat. But there are still many obstacles that may cause that to fall through. That one has new standing and running rigging but a lot of hours on the engine. And if this one falls through, the next one may be opposite or something else.

So if I have close numbers for all different major costs, I can build a budget that is close to reality. Then I will be in a much better position to know if I want to pay cash or finance some of it. I have a monthly maximum I want to use for boat, maintenance, dockage, cruising and upkeep. So the closer I am the better the decisions.

So thanks for the input and keep them coming.
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Old 26-08-2015, 19:33   #13
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Re: Budget Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by l2ridehd View Post
All good suggestions, but I like to keep my options open. I will pay cash if the price allows that. And I have narrowed it down and have made an offer on a 42 foot boat. But there are still many obstacles that may cause that to fall through. That one has new standing and running rigging but a lot of hours on the engine. And if this one falls through, the next one may be opposite or something else.

So if I have close numbers for all different major costs, I can build a budget that is close to reality. Then I will be in a much better position to know if I want to pay cash or finance some of it. I have a monthly maximum I want to use for boat, maintenance, dockage, cruising and upkeep. So the closer I am the better the decisions.

So thanks for the input and keep them coming.
When you mention "cruising", I assume that includes food, alcohol, and assorted extras (beach balls, fins, masks, snorkels, dining out, toilet paper, etc.), as I don't see those mentioned in your budget. Also, taxes are an annual consideration - maybe.

What about "fuel"? Is that included in "cruising"?
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Old 26-08-2015, 20:02   #14
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Re: Budget Numbers

I once had a client who had exactly the same issues and questions, and he had a dozen buildings with all sorts of things that needed to be done.

I developed A BUDGET SPREADHSEET for him in Excel that had each piece of work listed with a HIGH and a LOW estimate. Eventually each of the bits of work got bid out and we made each of the columns the same.

At the beginning (of the ten page spreadsheet) the bottom lines were in a 2:1 ratio. As time went by the two total got closer and closer.

Do one of these and don't sweat needing "the right number" to start off with.

This is called Creative Budgeting 101.

And a budget is just that.

Good luck.
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Old 26-08-2015, 20:09   #15
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Budget Numbers

You will need more specific information on the boat before you know.

Insurance in the water year round in FL is going to be way over your number, depending on boat value, but certainly over 3k per year regardless, but if you are talking a 3-400k boat I don't even want to hazard a guess.

You are going to be able to buy 1 sail for a 44, 1.5 for a 38 with that number.

You will have some way fancy instruments however, depending on what you buy, this could be zero, or augmented by some peripheral stuff like AaIS.

Haul out and launch is so low I think you may have typo $1,500 combined 750 each if it is a 44 is more like it.

38 foot boat probably need about 30hp, 44ft heavy displacement boats, more than 50.

Annual maintenance... Depends how old, ours is old, so a lot of our budget can be considered refit, but our maintenance number is still over $5, and that is if nothing breaks, leaks, or needs expensive guys to help you out.

With no targets of what boat specifically it is almost impossible to start working numbers.

The spreadsheet idea is great. Start looking (I just mean yacht world, or walking docks), pick three or four "candidates", and then start compiling the numbers to see what you can afford.





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