VAT Refund Possible When Exiting EU ?

[savoir]

For you to obtain a VAT refund in France the shop has to have the paperwork available and complete their share of it for you.

Here is the Lonely Planet version of how it works.
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/travelbl...?destId=359975

If I was a French chandler with a lot of non EU foreign customers I would be trying this out.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

That scheme you link to is the conventional VAT refund scheme that most countries run at airports. I'll leave it to your imagination as to whether you'll find the same service available at your Marina !

I have done this. I had to visit customs at the airport to get the bills approved, which they do if your residency is outside EU. Passport / drivers license is enough I think.

So yes, you have to visit the airport but you don't have to fly out of there.

ciao!
Nick.

[savoir]

Cheques do come in handy when settling large real estate transactions. You might have 6 people meeting at the owner's bank all paying or receiving different amounts of money. You cannot rely on them to send money just because they say they will or have and similarly an internet transfer might not go through to the receiving bank account until the next day. When millions are being paid a day's interest becomes important.

It is simpler to hand bank cheques around the table.

If electronic transfers could become instant then this type of thing would be redundant. It will probably happen soon. Banks have already made withdrawals instant. Funny how they can't do the same for deposits.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by savoir

For you to obtain a VAT refund in France the shop has to have the paperwork available and complete their share of it for you.

Here is the Lonely Planet version of how it works.
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/travelbl...?destId=359975

If I was a French chandler with a lot of non EU foreign customers I would be trying this out.

Note thAt under harmonised EU VAT law you are entitled to a refund if you leave the country within 90 days, haven't used the purchase and exit the custom union( and have proof) you are entitled to a refund from the retailer within 5 weeks from submission of the appropriate documents. It's against the law for the retailer to keep the VAT in such circumstances and you can complain to the relevant revenue authorities. ( believe you me the threat of a VAT inspection focus the retailer attention)

Note this is different to the VAT refund scheme, this is a method for participating stores to offer a VAT refund for non eU tourists at the point of exit of the EU. It's operated by service companies on your behalf and they take a fee.

Dave

Dave

[simonmd]

To give you an idea of how it works in Gibraltar, I went there the other day and did a 'tax free export' puchase just for this thread. (ok, maybe not just for this thread! )

I bought a wireless remote for my new autopilot in Gib' and told them it was for export. They told me ok but it was 'in bond' and had to be delivered to the boat. However, my new boat is still en route and i'd hoped to collect the item so I could use it when I meet it in northern Spain en route. So, they took the package to the British customs on the Gib' side of the border and had it officialy signed out for export. I was then free to take it across the border and do what I wanted with it.

Now, technicaly, I should have declared it going through the Spanish customs but that was my choice.

So, certainly for non EU people and even if you are in transit through Gib' to the rest of the EU, you can easily buy equipment tax free there.

[careka]

Originally Posted by savoir

For you to obtain a VAT refund in France the shop has to have the paperwork available and complete their share of it for you.

Here is the Lonely Planet version of how it works.
Getting Your VAT Refunds - Lonely Planet

If I was a French chandler with a lot of non EU foreign customers I would be trying this out.

I asked about it when we picked up our boat in france this summer,
and they told us that the sum of what you by has to be more then 1k euros befor it even pays off. so we dident do it.
---------
I can fly to England/uk and by tings from shops, they do the paperwork, i pay the taxs, deliver the paperwork at costums at the airport, and around 1 month later the VAT comes back to my bankaccount.
Last time, was last summer, did by an antenna, they sendt it to the hotel i was going to stay at, and paperwork was all fill out and in the delivery boxs., i did put the envolope into the costums mailbox at the airport, and money came to my bank-account 1 month later.
Done this many times.
But not all shops have this paperwork ready, and if they dont, they dont get to sell me any.

----
The importen thing is that the paperwork has to be done.
Ask for the shop to fill it out before you by.
---
i am not an EU cit.

[savoir]

What if you were in France and your dinghy and outboard were stolen ? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy ex vat from the local chandler and save 500 - 800 euro ?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by savoir

What if you were in France and your dinghy and outboard were stolen ? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy ex vat from the local chandler and save 500 - 800 euro ?

Note that you be never ( well nearly never) get not to pay the VAT. What's available is a post purchase refund once proof of export has been shown. Note that irrespective of whether a shop runs a refund scheme you are entitled to seek a VAT refund by providing proof of export. The deminimis value is small too about 35 euros I think.

Dave

[stevewrye]

The guy I need to talk to at the company is a way sailing for the month. Yes or no will I have to put the money up front on the VAT for the boat and get it back later?
Thanks
Steve.

[swagman]

Steve,

As the amount you might win / loose is so great, why not take some local professional advice rather than trying to get a view from the forum members who want to help, but are not legal eagles. All we can do is relate what we know has happened before, and sdaly that does not always mean its right.

My tuppenceworth is that maybe, as a non EU resident aiming to eventually not keep the boat in the EU, you might avoid VAT if the supplier is 'exporting' the boat to you. This might mean you making it US registered.

I know it is not the same situation, but this is one example of how one can play the rules. A UK mate bought a boat from Sweden who did not pay VAT in the UK. He took delivery in the UK but inside a specific period of time then sailed it to Malta. Maltas also in the EU but with a lower VAT rate than UK. They registered the boat in Malta, and paid the tax.

So I repeat, go find an EU VAT expert accountant (google will help) and relay all you've heard to him and get his opinion. At least if he gets it wrong you can sue him!

Good luck

JOHN

[goboatingnow]

The normal method of export purchase in France, and I have personal experience of this. is that the VAT is put in a bond, which means that you have the cash flow problem. The VAT is returned on proof of export.

Alternatively the retailer can arrange the delivery of the boat to a non-EU area, croatia being a favorite, this avoids the payment of VAT ( again I have direct experience) , but you have the cost of transport.

VAT experts that understand "Means of transport" VAT are far and few between, VAT law is terribly complex and experts tend to be of narrow focus. Also irrespective of the law, the retailer will usually act to preserve the VAT in case you are mis-representing the situation. Ultimately its the retailer that has to agree and he carries the can,

So in your case, you need to confirm with the retailer whether you will have to put the VAT in bond. If the retailer is happy to accept your bone-fides and sell to you VAT free, ( The UK has a sailaway scheme formalised, France does not) then thats fine.

Be aware of requests to find VAT experts, unless they and you undertsand, all that happens is confusion., The key is the retailer,.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by swagman

Steve,

As the amount you might win / loose is so great, why not take some local professional advice rather than trying to get a view from the forum members who want to help, but are not legal eagles. All we can do is relate what we know has happened before, and sdaly that does not always mean its right.

My tuppenceworth is that maybe, as a non EU resident aiming to eventually not keep the boat in the EU, you might avoid VAT if the supplier is 'exporting' the boat to you. This might mean you making it US registered.

I know it is not the same situation, but this is one example of how one can play the rules. A UK mate bought a boat from Sweden who did not pay VAT in the UK. He took delivery in the UK but inside a specific period of time then sailed it to Malta. Maltas also in the EU but with a lower VAT rate than UK. They registered the boat in Malta, and paid the tax.

So I repeat, go find an EU VAT expert accountant (google will help) and relay all you've heard to him and get his opinion. At least if he gets it wrong you can sue him!

Good luck

JOHN

The registration of a boat has no meaning in fact in realtion to VAT law, The goods must be exported within 90 days to qualify. Unless You are VAT registered, normally you pay and reclaim VAT.

The method you mention of playing the rules can in fact be illegal. New Means of Transport VAT laws require that VAT be paid in the "country of destination". In the case you mentioned, If the boat is Maltese registered and kept there, then the claim can be substanisated.

Most of these complex schemes are only relevent to EU tax residents trying to avoid VAT ( (rather then evade VAT). Non-EU tax residents buying boats for export are in all cases entitled to make the purchase VAT free, but As I mentioned elsewhere, usually its a post purchase refund.

Dave

[terra57]

Last year we spent a few a few thousand dollars on our boat in Portugal. Of course a VAT refund was attractive. Actually you are entitled to a VAT refund for items purchased in the EU and taken out of the EU. Of course boat stuff like paint and parts that go on the boat do not qualify because they must be presented unused with a receipt and the form as you leave the EU. Gifts and new unused and unopened items do qualify.

[MikeCC]

The UK VAT Retail Export Scheme does not require a trader to be a 'member', just VAT-registered. The retailer simply needs a stock of VAT407 forms available from HMRC. It is entirely up to the retailer whether they participate. The VAT will always be payable at point of purchase to be refunded on receipt of the customs-stamped form back at the retailer (or through a service company if that's their arrangement). The retailer is entitled to make a charge for the service.

Although airports are more likely to have a desk that can cope with it easily, any customs office should be able to stamp the form. The only downside is that they may wish to see 'unused' goods that tie up with the invoice.

Don't forget that from a government perspective the onus is always on the retailer to account correctly for VAT which is why it is not unreasonably payable at the outset.

[goboatingnow]

Uk sailaway scheme uses form 436 and C1331 or optional SAD form if export occurs through another Eu country. Vat does not have to be paid at point of purchase.

Obviously this is for the purchase of a boat and not bits

Dave