Mexican Navy vaccinated us

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by larsfforsberg

UGH. 600,000 people did not die of covid. For Pete's sake learn where that false number comes from. How many times does it have to be said - FOUR CO-MORBIDITIES ON AVERAGE.


Five percent of that number actually died of covid. Please stop repeating that BS number. The math is so simple. Holy cow man. You take the vaccine, I'll just be healthy. Your personal experience has nothing to do with the 99% survival rate of covid. I can't believe that people are buying into this crap. Eat less sugar, eat less doughnuts, don't smoke, go for a walk once in a while. Don't be an alcoholic, or a drug addict. Relax. The paranoia over this thing is off the charts.

600,000 more people died than die in an average year. And the averages are remarkably steady over time, so either they wouldn't have died if it weren't for Covid or something else is killing huge numbers of Americans (and people all over the world for that matter) just this year.

You did manage to ignore 95% of what I said though, I guess those were the inconvenient parts?

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by larsfforsberg

UGH. 600,000 people did not die of covid. For Pete's sake learn where that false number comes from. How many times does it have to be said - FOUR CO-MORBIDITIES ON AVERAGE.


Five percent of that number actually died of covid. Please stop repeating that BS number. The math is so simple. Holy cow man. You take the vaccine, I'll just be healthy. Your personal experience has nothing to do with the 99% survival rate of covid. I can't believe that people are buying into this crap. Eat less sugar, eat less doughnuts, don't smoke, go for a walk once in a while. Don't be an alcoholic, or a drug addict. Relax. The paranoia over this thing is off the charts.

I was with ya till you said not to be an alcoholic. Now I'm scared.
Back to the thread topic. Is not the Astra Zenaca vaccine the one that is not approved in the U.S., and France stopped using it because of hemorrhaging?

[Bycrick]

Trying to argue the "science" at this point is a waste of time. We have no control groups and a lack of good statistics. The scientists are still trying to figure out the 1918 Spanish flu. Some countries that tried "x solution" had good results, but others tried the same thing and it didn’t work. You pays your money and takes your choice.

My issue is the people who are absolutely sure that they’re "right" and then feel compelled to force everyone else to either agree with them or just shut up and comply.

If one believes in evolution and natural selection ( an argument that I’m not getting into), then BOTH sides of the arguments about mutation and vaccination rates are right. If one can track almost all of the cases, one can wipe out (or at least almost) a disease. Smallpox and polio are prime examples.

But, unless you have almost perfect coverage, the people who are not vaccinated or otherwise immune (or more bats or pangolins) are a source of even nastier mutations. Just look at the incidence of antibiotic resistant pathogens.

We’re not going to vaccinate our way to "normalcy."

And people are gradually going to get more "defiant" about locking themselves up, having to wear masks sewn from a handkerchief, or having to carry an ID card to show every time they want to go into a restaurant, bar or store.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

My point is that I doubt Jason S understands virus mutations and was simply parroting what he had been told, but I wanted to give him the opportunity to explain his statement.
Since you have done your best to explain virus mutations for him I know you do not understand them, and are merely parroting.

While I commend your faith in what you are parroting it is just faith. JW.org

I know what you were trying to say, but inadvertently what you actually said undercut your point entirely and supported Jason S'

Speaking of reading comprehension and tossing out insults, what part of my statement "As I said, the actual science behind mutations is far more nuanced than that" did you fail to read or comprehend?

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by larsfforsberg

I have friends who died in car wrecks. Do we stop driving? I have yet to meet a single person, even hospitalized from the coves. I had it, I have had friends who had it, my mother had it, her sister had it, girlfriend had it, sister had it - nobody got sicker than me. I had a fever for twelve days. It was no fun, but no big deal either. In your circle, people may be older or in worse health, I don't know - it is sad when people die, sorry about that....seriously, I feel for you. It is often a personal choice to be unhealthy. It is not a choice to be old - that's life. The stats say that the people who DIE have on average FOUR co-morbidities......FOUR. In other words, if you are not diabetic, overweight (the big one), have cancer, or something else, you are probably fine. Being over 70 does not help, but often at that age you have co-morbidities. Of course there will be the extremely rare situation where a young healthy person gets really sick or dies, but it is exceedingly rare. I'll take my natural antibodies, thank you.

It's not about your mom or my friends. It's about overloading the healthcare system with Covid patients who, by the odds, would have been able to recover at home had they been vaccinated. Even before the vaccine that was why we masked and distanced. I hope your lucky streak continues. But all over the country and world a lot of people are praying for a hospital bed to open to receive care for non covid related issues. Thanks, in the main, to anti-vaxxers their prayers will go unanswered. That's the problem.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

What percentage of the world's population or even the U.S. population fail to get the flu vaccine every year? The real answer is far more nuanced, but your statement actually provides more evidence of the point you're disputing

The flu vaccine you dutifully get every year is Big Pharma's annual coin toss... they win whether its Heads or Tails..
I have never had a flu shot.. and never will.

Quote..
The flu shot is 46% effective for this year's 2020 flu season. Organizations like the WHO, the CDC, and the Food and Drug Administration monitor which clades are appearing in different regions at any given time, and based on that, try to predict what strains will be most prevalent the following flu season. 17/10/2020.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by larsfforsberg

So there aren't "green pass" protests in Europe?...or whatever the gov is calling them? Are you denying that vast portions of Australia are not allowed to leave their homes? Read some real research, not funded by drug companies....please. I'm just asking you to please spread your intellectual wings. Look into the vacc rates in Israel. What has it accomplished?

You last line clearly indicates you are not reading any scientific papers coming out of Of Israel nor those emerging from the U.K.

There is concern over the waning efficacy of early Pfizer vaccinations. As the preprint warn, the early data is far from conclusive.

The conclusions , administer a booster

Nothing indicate the vaccines at not effective at preventing serious illness or death

Unlike yours mine are actually fully spread intellectual wings whereas yours are just stunted stubs. I actually read the preprints not get my “ news” from sources that confirm my bias.

[larsfforsberg]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

600,000 more people died than die in an average year. And the averages are remarkably steady over time, so either they wouldn't have died if it weren't for Covid or something else is killing huge numbers of Americans (and people all over the world for that matter) just this year.

You did manage to ignore 95% of what I said though, I guess those were the inconvenient parts?

Right back at ya. I have better things to do than argue on these silly forums. I guess I'm just not as smart as you. You are begging for your freedoms to be taken. I am not the guy to try to persuade you otherwise. I just don't care. It does bother me that people are still in the matrix, believing that the government, media, and drug companies are their friend, but their neighbor who does not want to lock himself inside his house, or jab himself with an experimental drug is somehow the bad guy. I can't decide whether we are living out Idiocracy or 1984. Baby boomers are dying; more and more every year. They are old, and many are unhealthy. This is math. Your superior intellect will get you through this. Don't worry about me, and I won't worry about you. If you are a fat 74 year old smoker, you may want to be worried about the flu, or cancer, or diabetes, or even the coves. I don't hate you, or even dislike you. Carry on; do what you want.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

Trying to argue the "science" at this point is a waste of time. We have no control groups and a lack of good statistics. The scientists are still trying to figure out the 1918 Spanish flu. Some countries that tried "x solution" had good results, but others tried the same thing and it didn’t work. You pays your money and takes your choice.

My issue is the people who are absolutely sure that they’re "right" and then feel compelled to force everyone else to either agree with them or just shut up and comply.

If one believes in evolution and natural selection ( an argument that I’m not getting into), then BOTH sides of the arguments about mutation and vaccination rates are right. If one can track almost all of the cases, one can wipe out (or at least almost) a disease. Smallpox and polio are prime examples.

But, unless you have almost perfect coverage, the people who are not vaccinated or otherwise immune (or more bats or pangolins) are a source of even nastier mutations. Just look at the incidence of antibiotic resistant pathogens.

We’re not going to vaccinate our way to "normalcy."

And people are gradually going to get more "defiant" about locking themselves up, having to wear masks sewn from a handkerchief, or having to carry an ID card to show every time they want to go into a restaurant, bar or store.

Vaccine certs are a time and place thing. We here are rapidly approaching 90% vaccinated 16-elderly , and projected to reach 98% by end of sept.

This means practically everyone has a COVID cert largely rendering them moot.

Mask wearing has continued in place even when only advisory and not mandatory.

While lockdowns were an imposition there use was supported by over 90% of the public. The “ protest “ march had about 100 dissenters most of whom are simply well known contrarians rather then those with a specific anti vaccine /anti lockdown etc etc viewpoint

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by ixnax

It's not about your mom or my friends. It's about overloading the healthcare system with Covid patients who, by the odds, would have been able to recover at home had they been vaccinated. Even before the vaccine that was why we masked and distanced. I hope your lucky streak continues. But all over the country and world a lot of people are praying for a hospital bed to open to receive care for non covid related issues. Thanks, in the main, to anti-vaxxers their prayers will go unanswered. That's the problem.

What a load of bollox..
It was bad management of hospital resources and blind panic especially when Bunter Boris got hospitalised.. at least in the UK.. but then the NHS has been excessively top heavy for years.
Its been admitted that normal treatment for cancer, diabetes etc could have continued last Spring but panic over the unknown caused them to shut down many services.. thankfully, in the UK at least normal services have begun to resume.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

What a load of bollox..

It was bad management of hospital resources and blind panic.. at least in the UK.. but then the NHS has been excessively top heavy for years.

Its been admitted that normal treatment for cancer, diabetes etc could have continued last Spring but panic over the unknown caused them to shut down many services.. thankfully, in the UK at least normal services have begun to resume.

The nhs is under increasingly pressure from the rising COVID cases. Elective surgeries are being actually cancelled or reschuled again ( this from a London surgeon I was sailing with last week )

There is considerable concern that the nhs will have to reserve COVID bed capacity

[EngineerRetired]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

Of course it’s being treated as a political issue in the US. Because it IS a political issue. Where I’m at, the government has arranged to get everyone a vaccination. One might have to wait a while or travel across town, but it’s available. What’s different from the US is that nobody is chasing people around ranting that they’ve GOT TO GET the shot or we’ll do all kinds of nasty things to force you to get it. I suspect that a fair percentage of the anti-vax sentiment in the US is resentment over the feeling that anybody who shouts "greater good" is trying to force everyone to adopt their position.

Where in Heck do you live that they are doing that? I travel extensively and have not seen or heard anything like that. Um just an aside, keeping someone from exposing me and mine is in fact for my (and your) greater good.

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

I know what you were trying to say, but inadvertently what you actually said undercut your point entirely and supported Jason S'

Speaking of reading comprehension and tossing out insults, what part of my statement "As I said, the actual science behind mutations is far more nuanced than that" did you fail to read or comprehend?

Originally Posted by redneckrob

What percentage of the world's population or even the U.S. population fail to get the flu vaccine every year? The real answer is far more nuanced, but your statement actually provides more evidence of the point you're disputing

I think I found the problem. I put them in bold for you.

[EngineerRetired]

Darwinism is gaining traction... Thankfully

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The nhs is under increasingly pressure from the rising COVID cases. Elective surgeries are being actually cancelled or reschuled again ( this from a London surgeon I was sailing with last week )

There is considerable concern that the nhs will have to reserve COVID bed capacity

You mean like all those emergency hospitals that were erected at great cost last year..

NHS England’s flagship Nightingale hospital in London – which opened to much fanfare a month ago – is to close its doors and be placed on ‘standby’ after treating just 51 Covid-19 patients, despite having room for 4,000.
The construction of the ‘field hospital’ at the ExCeL Centre in East London, which was opened by Prince Charles on April 3, was hailed as a huge success by the UK government. Health Secretary Matt Hancock said the makeshift hospital showed the “best of the NHS.” 04/05/2020