Yet another disaster at sea

[Knotical]

To all those who are saying not to pass any judgement until we know more about the event - how can we not? Do you think we will ever come to know what happened?

Any prudent sailor can see an intact rig, benign conditions, and less than a day sail back to shore. To those who say a busted port light and blown electronics are concerning - I agree to a certain point, but it’s a freaking sailboat and she is floating on her waterline!

In a certain way rescues like these affect us all, who do you think is paying the hundreds of thousands incurred in these rescues?

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Knotical

To all those who are saying not to pass any judgement until we know more about the event - how can we not? Do you think we will ever come to know what happened?

Any prudent sailor can see an intact rig, benign conditions, and less than a day sail back to shore. To those who say a busted port light and blown electronics are concerning - I agree to a certain point, but it’s a freaking sailboat and she is floating on her waterline!

In a certain way rescues like these affect us all, who do you think is paying the hundreds of thousands incurred in these rescues?

Why the need to pass judgment at all? If you believe, as the evidence could suggest, that it was an unnecessary rescue then the main takeaway for the rest of us is as discussed, namely a reminder to have the means and resources available to sail to a safe port without your electronics. A good hedge against complacency regardless if it's relevant to the circumstances here. Make a passage plan, utilize a logbook, practice your dead reckoning skills, and learn the sextant. I just think these rescue threads too often turn into ridiculing others' misfortunes under the guise of needing to "learn lessons." There are almost always some lessons worth learning to the extent practicable but, as you say, we rarely uncover the whole story.

As for the taxpayer cost of these rescues, it has been pointed out a number of times in other threads that if the Coasties weren't rescuing they'd be expending similar resources on training. I can't confirm this but it makes some sense to me. OTOH, the idea of putting first responders in harm's way for calls that are less than real threats to human life & limb is troubling. (Do screaming threats of divorce count Boatie? ) I know some countries require rescuees(sp?) to reimburse which could be a deterrent, but perhaps too much of a deterrent in borderline cases. Let's hope this isn't what happened here and, as discussed, there's more to the story (whether we find out or not).

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Exile

I can't confirm this but it makes some sense to me. OTOH, the idea of putting first responders in harm's way for calls that are less than real threats to human life & limb is troubling. (Do screaming threats of divorce count Boatie? ).

For me.. I can do that.. Draw up the papers..
But then I have been called a cold bastard in the past..
Been known to say "Shut the F**k up and stick your head down the quarter berth, I've serious $hit to deal with.."
However someone with a softer heart and spirit might crumble..

[Knotical]

Originally Posted by Exile

Why the need to pass judgment at all?

Human nature mostly, but experience with said subject makes it really hard to stay neutral, I understand everyone’s threshold to assess risk is different and that’s also human nature, but this is a public forum and everyone is entitled to an opinion, including you (respectfully).

I would really love to know what led them to call for a rescue, and if justified I will gladly eat my words. OTOH if they were just scared then taking a voyage like that with minimal experience should make them liable for some or all of the incurred costs.

[chrisr]

as we all know there are two spin-offs from this sort of B/S that have serious risk to harm us all ;

1. authorities get jack of rescuing wombats and start restricting our ability to go sailing

2. insurance companies get jack of paying for wombats and put up our insurance premiums

don't think # 1 won't happen...and we've already seen # 2

cheers,

[HeywoodJ]

Originally Posted by Knotical

...I would really love to know what led them to call for a rescue, and if justified I will gladly eat my words. OTOH if they were just scared then taking a voyage like that with minimal experience should make them liable for some or all of the incurred costs.

This is the hard part. It feeds into my feelings about the very existence of EPIRBs. In some senses I would be absolutely stupid for not carrying one, and if I didn’t and something happened that could have been resolved with one my wife’s family would never let me hear the end of it. OTOH, I make the choice to put to sea for pleasure. There is no requirement that I do so. There is no requirement that I adhere to a schedule I have set for myself. Under those circumstances, what right do I have to set off an EPIRB and start a chain of events that results in the expenditure of tremendous sums of money and puts other lives at risk?

For me, I can’t see setting off my EPIRB (or DSC alert) until I’m stepping up off the deck, or dealing with a medical situation I cannot handle aboard, but think the odds are good if I can get the patient to help. Then again, I haven’t ever found myself in that situation, so I could just be full of hot air and bravado. To me this is the hardest part of society - how much responsibility and self-reliance should I expect of myself and of others? Which then leads to these conversations.

[pbiJim]

Originally Posted by HeywoodJ

I suspect this picture is the genesis of much of the conjecture/speculation. I wasn't there, I don't know, but, in a picture it sure looks like a boat that could be sailed back to somewhere.

Your observation & assumption are correct, at least in my case.



I see a boat floating at it's waterline with an intact jib flying, in moderate sea conditions & I expect that it should be possible for any reasonably skilled crew to get her back to a local shore unless major details were omitted in the article that I read. If someone want's to judge me as being judgemental for taking that position, I'll wear that badge. I'll also stand by my original statement.

[requiem]

My thought was also that they may have lost powered bilge pumps or more. If the engine was also reliant on power (thinking fancy modern diesels) then you might not have the option of using the intake to pump either.

That could mean they were looking at a 15-20 hour sail back to land, hand steering and bucket-brigading the entire way with no nav lights, then standing off until daybreak when they have a better chance of seeing land, along with hoping they don't get in the path of shipping traffic.

What also seems odd about that is the mention they were going to see about having someone salvage it. I wouldn't expect that if it's taking on water. There's also the VHF issue; handhelds tend to be waterproof, but perhaps it just meant they were out of handheld range.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by HeywoodJ

For me, I can’t see setting off my EPIRB (or DSC alert) until I’m stepping up off the deck, or dealing with a medical situation I cannot handle aboard, but think the odds are good if I can get the patient to help.

Apart from the "is life or limb in danger", I'd also suggest considering current and expected conditions as well as the immediate casualty. If you reasonably anticipate the condition (medical, ship, weather, etc) to further deteriorate, you might as well pull the ripcord early if it means the rescue might e.g. happen in daylight rather than at night, or otherwise in safer conditions for all involved.

The actual money spent is not that great in relative terms. Far larger sums are spent on far more trivial things. Yes, you can get large numbers if you fully cost it out, but that includes plenty of overhead that's going to exist either way.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by boatman61

No judgement being passed..
... I am just theorising on reasons ...

A parable: The difference between a crow and a raven.
A biologist was asked to finally determine whether crows and ravens are really two different birds. This has been a matter of some conjecture for quite some time. Given only a cursory glance, these birds appear to be one and the same. The biologist spent considerable time watching the birds in their habitat and logging hours of observations. Their beaks were the same, their feet and their bodies showed no variable difference. But, at last, a breakthrough. The long feathers at the tip of a birds wings, the pinion feathers, provided the conclusion that ravens and crows differ. A raven has four pinion feathers and a crow has five pinion feathers.

So, the difference, between ravens and crows, is just a matter of a pinion.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by boatman61

...
Having been on a few boats where a limited to zero experienced females have freaked out when on board in turning weather. ...

That reminds me:
After years of speculation, researchers have finally published a journal article, documenting how long people tend to spend “freaking out”, in an emergency.

It’s about freaking time!

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by chrisr

as we all know there are two spin-offs from this sort of B/S that have serious risk to harm us all ;

1. authorities get jack of rescuing wombats and start restricting our ability to go sailing

2. insurance companies get jack of paying for wombats and put up our insurance premiums

don't think # 1 won't happen...and we've already seen # 2

cheers,

These were my concerns. Especially number one.

there are just too many boats causing problems right now

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Chotu

These were my concerns. Especially number one.

there are just too many boats causing problems right now

I haven't seen the latest USCG stats on accidents, injuries & fatalities, but every time I've looked in the past the vast majority are attributable to small power boats and occasional day sailors where intoxication was a factor. Then there are all the boats damaged and destroyed during hurricanes in Fla. and other parts of the e. coast. Hard to imagine the incidents we're seeing of late involving a relatively small handful of cruising boats is making much of a dent in these stats. Or have there been larger numbers of such incidents that I've missed?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Exile

I haven't seen the latest USCG stats on accidents, injuries & fatalities, but every time I've looked in the past the vast majority are attributable to small power boats and occasional day sailors where intoxication was a factor. Then there are all the boats damaged and destroyed during hurricanes in Fla. and other parts of the e. coast. Hard to imagine the incidents we're seeing of late involving a relatively small handful of cruising boats is making much of a dent in these stats. Or have there been larger numbers of such incidents that I've missed?

what you are missing has nothing to do with the raw statistics. The raw statistics don’t even matter.

The one and only thing that matters is perception. Everything you are talking about in this post doesn’t matter. Nobody knows about a little lake boat that has a problem.

everyone knows about the sailboat that washed up on the beach. Everyone in town. The local news. And look at this. They are all making national news as well.

people have a lot of hate. People are looking to attack those they perceive as more wealthy. People are looking to take down anything they see as an unfair advantage right now.

is it fair that we can take disposable income and go out in the ocean and screw up and have the tax payer come rescue us? Just like a big corporation does or whatever when they are too big to fail? no. It’s not fair. So if we’re not careful, we’re going to have this little privilege taken away.

That is the problem and that is what will cause problems if we don’t get our collective act together and stop doing this kind of thing.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by barcoMeCasa

Though in this case sounds very much like it's people who were taking on water well offshore but managed to get a DSC mayday out before the electrics died.

If you can stop water ingress through a leaking porthole then it’s better to book a resort holiday instead