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Old 05-07-2011, 11:22   #121
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Re: Xantrex Battery Charger Overheating - Frigoboat Fridge

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Originally Posted by senormechanico View Post
What you are seeing is the AC component being generated by the inverter in the fridge.

I suspect it is this AC component which is fooling the charger.
That's why substituting a different battery or installing the Mondo Large Ginormous Capacitor was suggested.
Interesting .. That's where this all started. I've gone back to Richard Kollman to get his comments on this aspect. He'll have to weigh in on whether there is an inverter in the unit and possibility for electrical noise.

With regards to the Isolater I'll need to take a closer look at it and see if there is a name and model info on it. The electrical wiring diagram for the boat shows the isolator is connected to each battery bank, charger, alternator and the bilge fan.
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Old 05-07-2011, 18:10   #122
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Had a closer look at the isolator. It's a diode isolator. Think it allows the alternator to charge both the start and house batteries without allowing the house loads to draw from the start bank.

Some of the contacts have corrosion so that might be a concern.
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Old 05-07-2011, 19:52   #123
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Re: Xantrex Battery Charger Overheating - Frigoboat Fridge

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Interesting .. That's where this all started. I've gone back to Richard Kollman to get his comments on this aspect. He'll have to weigh in on whether there is an inverter in the unit and possibility for electrical noise.
Here is the feedback from Richard taken from his Refrigeration forum. Not sure I really understand it; maybe someone could fill in some of the blanks. Suggestion seems to be to jump the wires directly from the batteries to the refrigeration control terminals, presumably to determine if there is a wiring issue between the panel, refrigerator and batteries. Have I got this right?

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Originally Posted by Richard Kollman
Troubleshooting is always a process of elimination. By replacing charger and eliminating refrigeration system as it operates off battery when charger is off would now prove that it is a boat electrical problem. Danfoss 12 volt compressor wiring diagrams point out that because of energy feedback to batteries refrigerator power and ground wires must be connected to main battery buss using battery as a energy surge capacitor. I know many refrigeration installations use secondary buss bars or circuit breaker panels for power source but this is not correct. I believe I suggested that module power wires be disconnected and replaced temporarily with fused correct size correct polarity jumper wires direct from battery to Danfoss control module. I assume after replacing charger it’s DC power wire connections are proper and connected without undue resistance between charger and batteries.
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Old 05-07-2011, 21:25   #124
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Re: Xantrex Battery Charger Overheating - Frigoboat Fridge

This is post number 124.
See post number 48.
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Old 06-07-2011, 19:55   #125
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Re: Xantrex Battery Charger Overheating - Frigoboat Fridge

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This is post number 124.
See post number 48.
Steve .. I know this is painful, but that post was about a different but not unrelated matter concerning chargers and running small refrigerators on shore power and potential for damaging batteries.

I'm not exactly sure what is meant by: "... ground wires must be connected to main battery buss using battery as a energy surge capacitor." Would be pleased if someone could translate what this means. My connection is through a terminal strip to the 12v DC panel. Dufour uses a relay to activate the fridge.
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Old 06-07-2011, 21:07   #126
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Re: Xantrex Battery Charger Overheating - Frigoboat Fridge

I take it to mean the battery has got to be connected as directly as possible to the fridge because the battery is a necessary "shock absorber" for the electronics for the compressor.

Most marine refrigerators convert the 12 volts DC to a 3 phase AC at a somewhat higher voltage.
Mine converts it to about 22VAC 3 phase at a variable frequency depending on temperature and available battery voltage.

The electronics module (basically a variable frequency inverter) doesn't take a constant current from the battery.
It takes a BIG bite and then actually RETURNS a bit of it BACK to the battery a fraction of a second later.
This happens somewhere around 40 times a second, although as I said, it varies with temp and battery voltage.

It's this event which causes noise in your stereo, VHF etc, when the fridge is running.
It's also the reason you can't just run a fridge on a charger without a battery.

The charger won't take ANY current in the opposite direction, and this refusal of back current might even damage the fridge's electronics.
That's why warnings are posted in installation documentation.

A battery on the other hand, just thinks it's being alternately charged and discharged very quickly, which it actually IS.
A healthy battery will take this in stride, and an ocillloscope across its terminals will show a very small change in voltage peaks when this event is taking place.


A "Squishy" or weak battery could show noticeably larger changes, thus fooling the charger.

If the power leads for the fridge electronics go directly to the battery without taking the scenic route through the panel, you have eliminated or at least reduced other possibilities for noise generation as well as reducing loss through long wire runs.
You need decent sized wire, and as short as practical.
Don't believe that just because the wire is original to the boat that it's good enough.
My boat had a #10 feed wire to my panel, and after adding a few things to the boat, I had to replace it with a #6, both + and - leads. WHAT A DIFFERENCE ! Fridge ran better, watermaker had more output, etc.


That's just my opinion of course, but I've got many years of pro electronic servicing and yacht maintenance behind it.
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:53   #127
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Re: Xantrex Battery Charger Overheating - Frigoboat Fridge

senormechanico, Excellent answer to Sailormann’s problem I like your comments and this statement "If the power leads for the fridge electronics go directly to the battery without taking the scenic route through the panel you have eliminated or at least reduced other possibilities" He has eliminated Charger and refrigerator leaving only boats batteries and boat’s wiring to be tested.

sailorman, has also been posting on my forum but fails to follow up on recommendations.

This will be my last post to sailorman on this subject:
“I am not getting through to you so best you find an electrician to do the temporary test I recommended which is bypassing all of boats present refrigerator wiring to battery.

Test Recommended same as before:
I suggested that module power wires be disconnected and replaced temporarily with fused correct size correct polarity jumper wires direct from battery to Danfoss control module. I assume after replacing charger its DC power wire connections are proper and connected without undue resistance between charger and batteries.

Now if problem is gone when refrigerator and charger are in operation temporary wiring can be replaced with new proper boat wire.”
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:40   #128
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Re: Xantrex Battery Charger Overheating - Frigoboat Fridge

Ok .. I think I have enought to chew on for this now. Will report back with any developments in due course. Thank to all!!!!
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:20   #129
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for what its worth

Been having trouble with my fridge.
xantrac charger (HF-1000) wouldnt charge or put out full output with out overheating error.
opened case to find the internal fan is plain old computer style fan. bearings were going bad and like a computer instant over heat means near instant shutdown.
remove top panal and rear screws, disconcet large phillips holding output wires. R/R fan.
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Old 08-07-2011, 16:37   #130
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Re: Xantrex Battery Charger Overheating - Frigoboat Fridge

Hi Im new to forum I found this topic on a google search....Same exact problem second Xantrex 40 amp charger both were brand new.... Have Adler Barbour cold-plate refer... I just run the refer and it "overheats" I run a pair of 105 amp hour lead acid flooded batteries. Im currently experimenting running on two stage instead of three stage charging..... but had to leave boat for the night.... I have noticed when you equalize the batteries it will automatically cancel out the fault/ warnings turn on the fan and perform an equalization cycle flawlessly.... if I wasn't on Lake MI id deep six the pos... Please note the unit is made in China so I guess you get what you pay for... I am considering taking my losses and asking Xanttrex for a 20 amp unit. Has any one had trouble with the 20 amp unit???? The only reason being as they lured me into buying there remote panel. If and when I need to upgrade you can run two 20 amp units in parallel withe panel.
Hope I didnt offend anyone with my rant...
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Old 08-07-2011, 18:03   #131
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Re: Xantrex Battery Charger Overheating - Frigoboat Fridge

I got rid of my xantrex charger I was living aboard and could hear it was not going into float mode had to turn power off to reset it yet still killed a $600 battery Iota now set and forget
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Old 08-07-2011, 18:53   #132
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Re: Xantrex Battery Charger Overheating - Frigoboat Fridge

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I got rid of my xantrex charger I was living aboard and could hear it was not going into float mode had to turn power off to reset it yet still killed a $600 battery Iota now set and forget
Honestly if I didn't have almost 400 invested plus my labor I would, not to mention a nice hole in my panel for the remote. I cant believe a company would sell such a piece of junk..... I would be more understanding if it would go a year before it failed.... but this is practically right of the box... maybe the wire nuts i used are loose JK .... First time I contacted Xantrex they said it was a software glitch I wonder what their excuse is this time.I do all the maintenance at a local Marina I will be sure to mention what a fine product they sell to fellow boaters.... Btw using a conductance tester I checked the batteries, there still about 95% cca with no bad cells I also used a clamp meter thinking maybe I had a ground fault, , checked for a Ground nuetral connection, for ac -dc grounding connection, finally checked an AC plug with shore power on right around 60 hz so the wavelengths seem fine... this was before I managed to override the faults and turn on the fan when I ran the chargers equalization mode. not trying to HI jack but if anyone has experience with the 20 amp model I am interested on how well it works..
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Old 08-07-2011, 19:09   #133
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Re: Xantrex Battery Charger Overheating - Frigoboat Fridge

In any case Im starting to miss my old raritan converter
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Old 08-07-2011, 22:03   #134
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Re: Xantrex Battery Charger Overheating - Frigoboat Fridge

Well my curiosity got me back to my boat, it doesnt matter if the refer is on or not after putting out 30-40% of its capacity the temp warning comes on because the fan refuses to kick on when you are using three stage charging I believe it is in the float stage... I had both cabin fans, radio, and some of the led lights on and the refer was off and it overheated.... I then put it in equalization mode and the chargers fan kicked on voltage and output raised and everything seemed fine..... I sure wish this thing was as heavy as the old raritan cause id use it as an anchor for the dink
I will shut up and listen now....
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Old 08-07-2011, 22:50   #135
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Re: Xantrex Battery Charger Overheating - Frigoboat Fridge

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I will shut up and listen now....
good... count to 10, swallow and take your loss, forget about Xantrex, take the unit out and sell it to somebody else who still loves their kit and buy yourself a decent charger. Use some material to adapt the new remote panel to the hole you cut if needed. When you follow this advice it will cost you some money but get you a good charger and a longer life for yourself, it's a great deal and I know because I dumped a Xantrex 3kW unit that I had bought a year earlier

ps. I can recommend a nice Victron charger or inverter/charger.

ciao!
Nick.
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