Starting Woes

[RicknSue]

Ok , I agree on one part - too much info is overloading the OP right now!! As soon as I read this , sounded easy to me - starter is bad - all engines need more amps to start hot and that's when a starter ( or maybe a bad circuit/ connection) will act up.
My a4 did this the last 2 years ( but of course being a mechanic so not ever fixing my own stuff) I just dumped some ice on the starter from the ice box to cool it off , then hit the starter button after a few minutes while tapping the end plate ( this stops the short through the stator that's being caused by the worn starter bushings) .. And TaDa off it fires .. Well until it finally quit for real and I HAD to fix it ... (Different story)
The clue is the ammeter going negative and no sound - it's showing you the load is being applied and going somewhere ( which it wouldn't with a bad connection) .. The current is flowing as normal , but straight throught the starter rather than producing the movement it should .
I'm assuming you painted the starter yellow, after the solenoid was replaced and the starter rebuilt? If you didn't and it came back to you like that, I would find a new rebuilder - or even better - find the manufacturer stamping number on the main body and do a search for the parts or a whole unit from an auto parts store. As comparison - the delco off an A4 - $16 rebuild kits on the web , $65 from NAPA with a 5 year warranty ( or a crazy amount of money from a marine place - same parts .
I'm just saying , I've probably installed a hundred rebuilt starters in my career and Never seen a rebuilder paint the stator strap ( that's the big wire coming out of the case) ..

Hope this helps

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by RicknSue

Ok , I agree on one part - too much info is overloading the OP right now!! As soon as I read this , sounded easy to me - starter is bad - all engines need more amps to start hot and that's when a starter ( or maybe a bad circuit/ connection) will act up.
My a4 did this the last 2 years ( but of course being a mechanic so not ever fixing my own stuff) I just dumped some ice on the starter from the ice box to cool it off , then hit the starter button after a few minutes while tapping the end plate ( this stops the short through the stator that's being caused by the worn starter bushings) .. And TaDa off it fires .. Well until it finally quit for real and I HAD to fix it ... (Different story)
The clue is the ammeter going negative and no sound - it's showing you the load is being applied and going somewhere ( which it wouldn't with a bad connection) .. The current is flowing as normal , but straight throught the starter rather than producing the movement it should .
I'm assuming you painted the starter yellow, after the solenoid was replaced and the starter rebuilt? If you didn't and it came back to you like that, I would find a new rebuilder - or even better - find the manufacturer stamping number on the main body and do a search for the parts or a whole unit from an auto parts store. As comparison - the delco off an A4 - $16 rebuild kits on the web , $65 from NAPA with a 5 year warranty ( or a crazy amount of money from a marine place - same parts .
I'm just saying , I've probably installed a hundred rebuilt starters in my career and Never seen a rebuilder paint the stator strap ( that's the big wire coming out of the case) ..

Hope this helps

While this is possible explanation, it isn't the only reason the ammeter could be showing a discharge. As per the circuit the OP posted (#4), the glow plugs are activated as soon as the start switch is operated and they use a separate set of NO contacts and other wiring to operate the glow plug relay.

And it is unusual for the ammeter to be part of the "heavy side" of the starter motor circuit.
And why would the starter motor be considered hot after a days sailing.

Nevertheless it is a possibility and at this stage, all ideas are good

[Charlie]

I know it seems a bit confusing but I stand by doing a voltage drop test. the test would be a lot easier with a remote starter. I bought a cheap one from harbor freight. 12 Volt Remote Starter Switch

Step 1) Close seacock and turn off fuel supply.

2) Connect multimeter(DMM) from negative battery post to engine ground. Turn key to start engine. If there is over one amp drop on the meter that is a significant drop. Clean all connections and retest.

3) Connect DMM from positive battery post to positive connection on starter. Spin (or try to spin) the starter. Read the meter. If there is over one amp drop clean all connections and retest.

This is a simplified version but it will track down if/where there is voltage drop. HF also sells inexpensive jumper leads which are helpful for extending the reach of your DMM. Once again I think Caulder's tests should help you. It seems overwhelming but I think you should be able to figure out the problem with perserverence and patience. Good luck Greg.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Charlie

I know it seems a bit confusing but I stand by doing a voltage drop test. the test would be a lot easier with a remote starter. I bought a cheap one from harbor freight. 12 Volt Remote Starter Switch

Step 1) Close seacock and turn off fuel supply.

2) Connect multimeter(DMM) from negative battery post to engine ground. Turn key to start engine. If there is over one amp volt drop on the meter that is a significant drop. Clean all connections and retest.

3) Connect DMM from positive battery post to positive connection on starter. Spin (or try to spin) the starter. Read the meter. If there is over one amp volt drop clean all connections and retest.

This is a simplified version but it will track down if/where there is voltage drop. HF also sells inexpensive jumper leads which are helpful for extending the reach of your DMM. Once again I think Caulder's tests should help you. It seems overwhelming but I think you should be able to figure out the problem with perserverence and patience. Good luck Greg.

Well Charlie, it was confusing but I fixed it for you

[Jacknast]

Originally Posted by Charlie

Hi Greg:

I think what you need to do is to do a voltage drop test on your system. It sounds a lot more complicated then it is. You will need a digital Multimeter (DMM). First measure the voltage across the posts of the battery. If the battery checks fine then check from the negative post to a known ground on the battery. remember 2x4. I forget if this is correct but the negative side should have no more then .2v of drop and the positive side shuld have no more then .4v of drop. The next test is from the positive post of the battery to the positive lug on the starter. By performing these tests on all the connections you will be able to find where/if the voltage drop is located. Here is a good basic video on it

Also you can look in Nigel Calder's book on how to perform the test.

awesome video. Learning a great deal from this thread. Thanks for your knowledge, all.

[Jacknast]

Originally Posted by Charlie

I know it seems a bit confusing but I stand by doing a voltage drop test. the test would be a lot easier with a remote starter. I bought a cheap one from harbor freight. 12 Volt Remote Starter Switch

Step 1) Close seacock and turn off fuel supply.

2) Connect multimeter(DMM) from negative battery post to engine ground. Turn key to start engine. If there is over one amp drop on the meter that is a significant drop. Clean all connections and retest.

3) Connect DMM from positive battery post to positive connection on starter. Spin (or try to spin) the starter. Read the meter. If there is over one amp drop clean all connections and retest.

This is a simplified version but it will track down if/where there is voltage drop. HF also sells inexpensive jumper leads which are helpful for extending the reach of your DMM. Once again I think Caulder's tests should help you. It seems overwhelming but I think you should be able to figure out the problem with perserverence and patience. Good luck Greg.

What's cool is that this technique can be used to troubleshoot a whole lot more in your system, should the need arise. shortfall, you need 5 hands and looongg arms.

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Well Charlie, it was confusing but I fixed it for you

Thanks Wotname you are dead on right!!! My Bad

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by Jacknast

What's cool is that this technique can be used to troubleshoot a whole lot more in your system, should the need arise. shortfall, you need 5 hands and looongg arms.

These really come in handy if you don't have a second person.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Charlie

Thanks Wotname you are dead on right!!! My Bad

No problem
And it was only a small hiccup compared to my brain fart back in post 6

[DeepFrz]

Has there been any resolution to this problem?

[SkiprJohn]

This is a thread stretch but applicable I believe. I had this same very perplexing problem happen to my Saturn SL2. It was a continuing problem over a couple of years. Of course it didn't have glow plugs.

I turned the key to start but no click, no nothing and very intermittently and the problem would stop for months at a time. The problem would not occur for my mechanic and he thought I was nuts. He is probably right.

I finally took note when it happened the next time that the voltage would drop when I turned the key to start but got nothing. I told the mechanic to change the starter and a bunch of money later the problem was solved. Now I regret buying a newer car. The Saturn got me as much as 43 mpg.