Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

[d4raffy]

Originally Posted by SFH

d4Raffy,
The shore charger (80A) is charging the truster batteries (OPTIMA RED TOP batteries) but I often get low voltage alarm.

I want to get rid of the Cristec MOSFET 100A 3-splitter since it cant handle the load from the Balmar AT-165 and replace it with a setup that improves charging of my truster battery pack in the bov: Faster and with an optimal charge profile matching the three different batpacks instead of "one fits all"

Steen

just checking - but where is the alarm coming from ? Normally Alarms are on the Service Bank - if this is the case .... something else maybe amiss ... like your Thruster bank is dead and/or the alternator is not supplying enough supplement.

Understand your thoughts for your 100A splitter - I have a Sterling zero volt drop 120A splitter - but the amperage seems to detail the input feed - not sure how many amps will actually go through these things to the connected Banks. This is obviously where a relay is best - for straight amp pass thru and no volt drop.

But ..then .. it sounds like.

We need some form of 'intelligent' 12/24v charging for when the alternator is feeding, there is no load on the Banks and the battery type is different than that configured in our alternator regulation profile (typically the Service Bank).

I am coming round to thinking :
A 240v 'intelligent' charger for the Service Bank - on Generator or ShorePower
2 x 'intelligent' 12v chargers to Engine and Thruster/Windlass from the Service Bank - for top up and ongoing maintenance
Alternator (optimally regulated to the Service Bank battery type ) charging the Service Bank.
2 x Relay combiners to combine the Thruster/Windlass to the Service and the Engine to the Service - as required. I might wire the Thruster/Windlass activation relay to my Windlass activator switch.
Also my Solar charging the Service Bank ..... have both MPPT and PWM.

Mind you - if you read the Smart Gauge stuff on their website - they say that all this profiling is a waste of time .... just use intelligent combiner relays.
And ... if every other Bank is hanging off the Service Bank - what happens if that has a problem - everything stops. ... hmmm

Are we over complicating things ....

[SFH]

The bov truster is actually operating at 24V.

2 x 2 12V OPTIMA RED TOP are coupled to a battery coupler and the coupler is charged/supplied directly from the Cristec MOSFET isolator next to the housebank

Hence my concerns regarding the potential voltage drop: From shore charger/alternator through Christec MOSFET isolator through 2x30FT cable through the truster battery coupler before it finally reaches the truster batteries

Steen

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by SFH

The bov truster is actually operating at 24V.

2 x 2 12V OPTIMA RED TOP are coupled to a battery coupler and the coupler is charged/supplied directly from the Cristec MOSFET isolator next to the housebank

Hence my concerns regarding the potential voltage drop: From shore charger/alternator through Christec MOSFET isolator through 2x30FT cable through the truster battery coupler before it finally reaches the truster batteries

Steen

Is your house bank also 24V? If it is 12V then a typical combining relay won't work and you would need a Tollbridge or a Sterling 12V to 24V battery to battery charger....

[SFH]

Maine

No. The house bank is 12V.

The bov thruster is a CT 125 24V from Max Power and batteries are connected 2xP / 2xS.

It IS working but

1. the bov thruster low voltage alarm sounds everytime I use the thruster 5-6 secs

2. the batteries are only four years old

3. I want to ensure that take everything into account before upgrading the alternator on the engine to an AT-165

Steen

[d4raffy]

Originally Posted by SFH

The bov truster is actually operating at 24V.



2 x 2 12V OPTIMA RED TOP are coupled to a battery coupler and the coupler is charged/supplied directly from the Cristec MOSFET isolator next to the housebank

Not sure what a 'battery coupler' is - doesn't this mean you have being trying to charge a 24v bank from a 12v-14v source via your Cristec splitter?
I'm unclear on this area - perhaps Maine can advise ? But I would have thought you would need a 24v charging profile for that bank .... ..?? Maybe you killed the bank somehow ....


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[btrayfors]

Sounds really fishy, Steen!

A diagram would help immensly.

From what info you've provided, it seems you have a 12VDC house battery bank from which you are attempting to charge 24V bow thruster batteries.

And, the run is 30'....a long way....

What do you mean by the "battery coupler" for the thruster batteries?

And, how exactly, are those batteries wired?

What do you mean by "2X30' cable"??? Are you perhaps running two positive and two negative cables forward, one set to each 12VDC thruster battery?

Are you sure you're getting 24VDC to the thruster?

And, if so, how are you charging the batteries with only 12VDC source (the house batteries)?

Some more detailed information would help us to help answer your questions.

Bill

[SFH]

Originally Posted by d4raffy

just checking - but where is the alarm coming from ? Normally Alarms are on the Service Bank - if this is the case .... something else maybe amiss ... like your Thruster bank is dead and/or the alternator is not supplying enough supplement.

Understand your thoughts for your 100A splitter - I have a Sterling zero volt drop 120A splitter - but the amperage seems to detail the input feed - not sure how many amps will actually go through these things to the connected Banks. This is obviously where a relay is best - for straight amp pass thru and no volt drop.

But ..then .. it sounds like.

We need some form of 'intelligent' 12/24v charging for when the alternator is feeding, there is no load on the Banks and the battery type is different than that configured in our alternator regulation profile (typically the Service Bank).

I am coming round to thinking :
A 240v 'intelligent' charger for the Service Bank - on Generator or ShorePower
2 x 'intelligent' 12v chargers to Engine and Thruster/Windlass from the Service Bank - for top up and ongoing maintenance
Alternator (optimally regulated to the Service Bank battery type ) charging the Service Bank.
2 x Relay combiners to combine the Thruster/Windlass to the Service and the Engine to the Service - as required. I might wire the Thruster/Windlass activation relay to my Windlass activator switch.
Also my Solar charging the Service Bank ..... have both MPPT and PWM.

Mind you - if you read the Smart Gauge stuff on their website - they say that all this profiling is a waste of time .... just use intelligent combiner relays.
And ... if every other Bank is hanging off the Service Bank - what happens if that has a problem - everything stops. ... hmmm

Are we over complicating things ....

d4Raffy,

All lot of things to think about and very good points. I also like the redundancy in the system

btrayfors,

I have attached schematic diagram showing the wiring.

"15" is the Cristec MOSFET isolator next to the house bank.
"269" is the coupler

There is a wire from "270" to my DC panel. I guess that is the low voltage alarm wire

Steen

[btrayfors]

Steen,

Sorry, I'm just not getting it.

1. Are all 4 batteries 12VDC?

2. Which are the thruster batteries?

3. Do you have a make/model number for the "controller" (item 269)?

Perhaps someone more familiar with European wiring circuits and equipment could chime in?

Bill

[SFH]

Originally Posted by d4raffy

just checking - but where is the alarm coming from ? Normally Alarms are on the Service Bank - if this is the case .... something else maybe amiss ... like your Thruster bank is dead and/or the alternator is not supplying enough supplement.

Understand your thoughts for your 100A splitter - I have a Sterling zero volt drop 120A splitter - but the amperage seems to detail the input feed - not sure how many amps will actually go through these things to the connected Banks. This is obviously where a relay is best - for straight amp pass thru and no volt drop.

But ..then .. it sounds like.

We need some form of 'intelligent' 12/24v charging for when the alternator is feeding, there is no load on the Banks and the battery type is different than that configured in our alternator regulation profile (typically the Service Bank).

I am coming round to thinking :
A 240v 'intelligent' charger for the Service Bank - on Generator or ShorePower
2 x 'intelligent' 12v chargers to Engine and Thruster/Windlass from the Service Bank - for top up and ongoing maintenance
Alternator (optimally regulated to the Service Bank battery type ) charging the Service Bank.
2 x Relay combiners to combine the Thruster/Windlass to the Service and the Engine to the Service - as required. I might wire the Thruster/Windlass activation relay to my Windlass activator switch.
Also my Solar charging the Service Bank ..... have both MPPT and PWM.

Mind you - if you read the Smart Gauge stuff on their website - they say that all this profiling is a waste of time .... just use intelligent combiner relays.
And ... if every other Bank is hanging off the Service Bank - what happens if that has a problem - everything stops. ... hmmm

Are we over complicating things ....

Originally Posted by btrayfors

Steen,

Sorry, I'm just not getting it.

1. Are all 4 batteries 12VDC?

2. Which are the thruster batteries?

3. Do you have a make/model number for the "controller" (item 269)?

Perhaps someone more familiar with European wiring circuits and equipment could chime in?

Bill

Bill,

Thanks for your patience (it's French wiring - why keep it simple if you can make it complicated ).

The schematic in my previous ONLY shows the bovthruster setup. All the shown batteries are located in the bov in a bank. The Cristec isolator (15) is connected to the housebank (12V/660Ah) and the chargers (not shown)

I checked the MAX POWER CT125 thruster manual. It has a number but only refers to it as a relay

Just for reference I have added the spec pages for the boat - a JEANNEAU YACHT 53. 12V house bank and 24V thruster...

Steen

[btrayfors]

Originally Posted by SFH

Bill,

Thanks for your patience (it's French wiring - why keep it simple if you can make it complicated ).

The schematic in my previous ONLY shows the bovthruster setup. All the shown batteries are located in the bov in a bank. The Cristec isolator (15) is connected to the housebank (12V/660Ah) and the chargers (not shown)

I checked the MAX POWER CT125 thruster manual. It has a number but only refers to it as a relay

Just for reference I have added the spec pages for the boat - a JEANNEAU YACHT 53. 12V house bank and 24V thruster...

Steen

Merci, mon ami. Maintenant je comprends. C'est bien francais, donc c'est un peu compliqué. At least for we lesser mortals :-)

The "isolator" is just an automatic battery switch, supposed to pass current to the weaker batteries first and to maintain all those connected. Good.

God only knows what the controller is for. It looks like it might somehow take inputs from the four 12V thruster batteries, and from the house battery bank via the isolator, and magically come up with the 24VDC needed for the thruster.

As you say, why keep it simple when you can come up with such a plan?

Maybe someone else can decipher this one. Sorry, I can't.

Bill