Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-03-2014, 01:51   #1
Registered User
 
d design's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Whangaroa, New Zealand
Posts: 266
Lithium Charging

How do I charge a lithium with my boats alternator and solar regulator that are designed for Lead acid batteries? Just wondering because one day i will upgrade. Let me guess. [ an expensive solar regulator designed for lithium batteries will be required for solar input, And an external regulator will need to be fitted to my alternator with the voltage set to 13.4v (LiFe) ?]

Sorry for dumb question.

And no im not going to read through that entire stupid long thread about lithium batteries just to find the info im asking here.
d design is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-03-2014, 09:19   #2
Registered User
 
senormechanico's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 7,141
Re: lithium charging

How nice of you not to waste your time on that "stupid" thread.



__________________
The question is not, "Who will let me?"
The question is,"Who is going to stop me?"


Ayn Rand
senormechanico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-03-2014, 12:57   #3
Registered User
 
d design's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Whangaroa, New Zealand
Posts: 266
I said stupid long not stupid thread. Are you trying to offend me?
d design is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-03-2014, 12:57   #4
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,136
Re: lithium charging

"one day " there will be new equipment to do the job. Why worry your head with choosing the equipment that is available now, when it should be obsoleted by next year anyhow?

Shop when you are ready to buy.
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-03-2014, 12:20   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Novato, California
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 288
Re: lithium charging

I wasn't aware lithium was a viable technology for boats yet and given it's fire risk I'm not sure it should be. When I was into r/c airplanes we would charge our lithium batteries in a metal box as a precaution just in case they caught on fire and we were using smart chargers designed for lithium batteries.

But if lithium does catch on I agree with hellosailor that any electronics you buy is usually obsolete between the time you buy it and the time you receive it. Unless you're just bored I wouldn't worry about the technology until you're in the market.

I'd also be more concerned about the bad advice you sometimes get in these forums and not about being offended. I personally thought senormechanico was pretty funny. :-)
kentobin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-03-2014, 12:31   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: On the road
Boat: Newell, 1998, 45'8"
Posts: 40
Re: lithium charging

And post #5 is exactly why someone should at least skim through that "stupid long thread".
That thread has tons of valuable information (read free info that is very hard to dig up anywhere else) and helped me tremendously in setting up my LiFePO4 system in my motorhome.
folivier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-03-2014, 13:03   #7
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,920
Re: lithium charging

I'm in the beginning process of installing a 400AH LiOn bank aboard our boat...the benefits for me outweight the costs.

Once I get the system I'm installing sorted out I'll follow-up with some posts and photos until then I'll just spend my time reading through the dumb posts.

Just a comment here...take it for what it is worth.
If you are not willing to read through a dumb long post about LiOn batteries and learn about them...then I'm not sure you are a good candidate to install them quite frankly. Being a early adapter of a new tecnology (LiOn on cruising boat anyway), takes time, research and patience.

But what do I know...I'm just a self confessed Cruising Bozo.
__________________
Rich Boren
Cruise RO & Schenker Water Makers
Technautics CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-03-2014, 15:38   #8
Registered User
 
bill good's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: sold Now motor cruiser
Posts: 692
Re: Lithium Charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by d design View Post
How do I charge a lithium with my boats alternator and solar regulator that are designed for Lead acid batteries? Just wondering because one day i will upgrade. Let me guess. [ an expensive solar regulator designed for lithium batteries will be required for solar input, And an external regulator will need to be fitted to my alternator with the voltage set to 13.4v (LiFe) ?]

Sorry for dumb question.

And no im not going to read through that entire stupid long thread about lithium batteries just to find the info im asking here.
Far from dumb. Smart to learn by others dumb actions. Here is one. My engines are massive 7.5 hp diesel with a 35 A standard alternator. Normal starting is with the power lever well up ie above 1800 RPM. Alternator will try to supply power at the same time resulting in heavy load due to the alternators trying to charge. This heavy load does fall off quickly as the power taken for a start is very small but my small engines do get loaded. Could modify the alternators to switch out field but prefer standard for easy replacement if needed. Had to makeup a 3 min timer to allow the engine to get going before the alternator came on load. Personally I won't leave a lifepo4 on any float charge so a timer had to be made to cut off the alternator after a suitable time period. Then had to add a circuit to sense the high & low points for the battery to come on & off as needed. Then when the alternator is disconnected from the battery a small external voltage regulator had to be made to run some of the 12 volt circuits in the absence of a battery to regulate the alternator output. Was it worth all the trouble only time will tell. Time in service 2 years nil battery problems ( One engine start battery is 28 a/h the other 40 a/h & when remembered both are in parallel for starts) Battery suppliers are putting out 12 v lifepo4 for replacement of lead in cars & just dropping them in without any control or modifications.

Regards Bill ps the 24 a/h has bms the 40 a/h car replace type has none at this stage
bill good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-03-2014, 22:33   #9
Registered User
 
d design's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Whangaroa, New Zealand
Posts: 266
Its very hard to find a simple answer on this forum. All replies so far are off topic.
d design is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2014, 02:24   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia Mannum South Australia
Posts: 644
Re: Lithium Charging

I think the problem is, you want free information handed on a platter exactly in the formate you required. It appears you take offence when told it's not about to happen any time soon so I'm guessing you are getting right pissed off about now.
As has already been said, if you can't be bothered to read the imformation already freely provided then it would probably be in everyone's best interest if you either bought a ready made system or stayed with lead acid.

It's about this stage in the adoption cycle where a new technology is being readily accepted so this is the stage where those that sat back and waited for everyone else to do the work get the shits when it's ot just handed to them om a plate.

Now the question arises, which is the stupid thread, the long one with a lot of valuable information, or this one?
One of lifes simple lessons, you will get a better result if you don't insult the people you are asking for help

T1 Terry
T1 Terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2014, 10:56   #11
Registered User
 
senormechanico's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 7,141
Re: Lithium Charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by d design View Post
Its very hard to find a simple answer on this forum. All replies so far are off topic.

Maybe you would find what you are looking for elsewhere?

It reminds me of a request made on the VHF cruiser's net one morning from a newb in Mexico.
The guy was demanding someone supply him with a part for his old Jabsco pressure water pump.
When asked why he hadn't brought spare parts with him, he replied "I didn't want to weigh down my boat". ( a Hunter 40)
You could hear the laughter all over the anchorage.
__________________
The question is not, "Who will let me?"
The question is,"Who is going to stop me?"


Ayn Rand
senormechanico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2014, 12:42   #12
Registered User
 
d design's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Whangaroa, New Zealand
Posts: 266
Suppose I was to install lifeypo4 into my boat this week. What technology currently exist to support charging these batteries. If there is none as it seems to you guys, well I will design my own but I doubt I will need to. I dont want to reinvent the wheel. Cheers
d design is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2014, 12:56   #13
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
Images: 3
Re: Lithium Charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by d design View Post
Suppose I was to install lifeypo4 into my boat this week. What technology currently exist to support charging these batteries. If there is none as it seems to you guys, well I will design my own but I doubt I will need to. I dont want to reinvent the wheel. Cheers

The technology exists to charge these devices. No problem, what's your problem

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2014, 13:01   #14
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,136
Re: Lithium Charging

Steve-
When I hear that we're all OT it makes me think of Groucho Marx's line:

"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas I'll never know."

Well, d, did it ever occur to you, oh, wait, surely you already looked online, maybe at West Marine, and before you even asked the question, you already KNEW that the right kind of charger didn't exist on the commercial market?

Or maybe, you don't know there are different "lithium" technologies, and each maker "requires" different charging protocols and procedures?

But hey, we're all ignoring the elephant in your pajamas.
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2014, 13:14   #15
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 3,731
Images: 4
Re: Lithium Charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by d design View Post
How do I charge a lithium with my boats alternator and solar regulator that are designed for Lead acid batteries? Just wondering because one day i will upgrade. Let me guess. [ an expensive solar regulator designed for lithium batteries will be required for solar input, And an external regulator will need to be fitted to my alternator with the voltage set to 13.4v (LiFe) ?]

Sorry for dumb question.

And no im not going to read through that entire stupid long thread about lithium batteries just to find the info im asking here.
T1 Terry will correct me if I'm making a wrong assumption, so here is my .02 worth. The nominal voltage of (4) LiFePO4 cells in series for a 12 volt battery are so close to a lead acid 12 volt battery, that isn't a issue. The issue comes from the fact that a lead acid battery during charging will display an artificially high surface voltage so throughout the charge cycle from your alternator, the voltage differential is less, hence the charge rate is tapered. Most alternator's ratings are based on what they can put out max, but not continuously. When charging our large prismatic cells, because their voltage holds tight during charging, the alternator will be putting out max output until the lithium cells hit about 90% full. This will cause a typical alternator to run hot until the over temp circuit cuts its output in half. MaineSail has mentioned that his alternator's programmable regulator allows for him to cut back max output as a belt saving feature, thus being able to charge at say 80% of max output.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
https://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charging

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Toyota on Lithium Deep Cycle Batteries hellosailor Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 9 12-12-2019 10:08
New Lithium-Ion Batteries Agility Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 84 27-08-2015 14:57
improvements Looming on Lithium Batteries fastcat435 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 0 20-06-2010 11:59
Mastervolt Lithium Ion Batteries Namoian Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 28 28-03-2010 15:42
Lithium ion Batteries prae Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 5 03-03-2009 09:29

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:43.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.