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Old 03-03-2018, 03:38   #1
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Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

Hi everybody,

I just bought a new Rutland 1200 wind generator. It comes with a charger for wind and solar input.

Having drawn up an idea of how it may work, I like to hear if it actually will work.
Please comment only specifically to the proposed layout.

I did write to the manufacturer but heard nothing back.
Specific questions are:

Q1*
The two Yamaha 9.9 can charge with 6.6A (most likely they have no regulator).
Normally I would keep my starter battery completely separate. It has its own solar and is charged by the Yamahas.
Still, on long stretches by engine I'd like to switch the engines charging power to the house batteries as well.
Could I switch them manually to also charge the house battery while the Rutland charger is also attached and allow any other input at the same time?Do I have to have a blocking Diode in this?
The Rutland charger allows a max charge of 55A through it.

Q2
I have a second Sunware charger and might want to add further house batteries and solar panels later.
If I attach these extra panels with the second Sunware charger, will the Rutland charger suffer?

Basically the question is, if I attach different energy sources through several regulated chargers, would those chargers each sense the battery Voltage and reduce charging to the max amount automatically?
Ideally I would have ONE powerful charge unit which can coordinate all inputs. Still such a unit is not possible at the moment due to budget constraints.

Last not least how can I attach the Kyocera Panels with separate cables to the Rutland charger so that if one PV is shadowed the others still work?


The proposal is attached here.

IMPORTANT:
This is a low budget boat. I prefer not to buy additional chargers or replacing equipment it can be avoided.

I am not an electrician. Please spare me discussions on how to correctly use units.

Thanks so much in advance, please keep your answers understandable to a non electrician.

Fran


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Old 03-03-2018, 06:09   #2
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Re: Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

Giving such detailed instructions, limiting the types of feedback you want, would IMO be more appropriate in the context of a customer instructing a paid consultant.

I'd be happy to give some quick comments, but just general info to correct the misunderstandings shown in your post, to help increase your capacity to deal with the project yourself.
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Old 03-03-2018, 07:08   #3
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Re: Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

Hi John, thanks, please go right ahead.

Unfortunately paid consultancy is not an option available to me. There are simply not sufficient funds to approach it from that end. Which is why I resort to crowd knowledge.

I'm not asking for a complete redesign of the system.
The question is more, can it principally be done the proposed way or should limited alterations to the proposal be done.

I'm a believer to the theory that usually the last 20% of an effort are only worth it under exceptional circumstances.
In most cases the last 20% the perfectionist puts in are not efficient.
But thats my attitude to personal projects.
So compromises are not a problem.

Keep it simple & go sailing


Thanks Fran
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Old 03-03-2018, 07:22   #4
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Re: Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

Putting multiple charge sources on one bank is not a problem. Ideally they will have similar setpoints, but NBD as long as none is grossly out of bank's specs, but the concurrency is NP at all.

Put all significant charge sources on the big deep cycled House bank.

A VSR/ACR/combiner then charges the other(s), for Starter batt an Echo Charger is fine.

That assumes all banks' voltage specs are similar, if any need a very different charge profile then a DC-DC charger is required.

Manually switching a given load circuit between banks is OK, but not for directing charging. Avoid "both" switches.
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Old 03-03-2018, 07:31   #5
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Re: Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

'Charger" usually means shore power.

Solar controllers

Probably best not to mix solar and wind through the same controller. A bunch of small specialized ones will give more total power than one big one.

A Victron MPPT 75/15 can be under $100, each panel getting its own SC is the best workaround for partial shading.

Most efficient with 24V nominal panels, say between 36 and 60Voc rating, up to 200-250w total, maybe 300w if you find a real bargain, will improve total average charging in suboptimal weather conditions.
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Old 03-03-2018, 07:33   #6
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Re: Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

Thank you so far.

As I'm not a native speaker, could you be so kind and clarify the meaning of NBD and NP?

The complete system is 12 Volt.
Any 220V shown is entered via the 12V charger.
All batteries are the same model lead acid gel at the moment. Nothing fancy.
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Old 03-03-2018, 07:48   #7
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Re: Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

So if I understand it right, its better to keep the panels on their existing individual controlers and at most use the Rutlands controller solar input option only for one of them.

Regarding the switch over option for the charging of the house bank through the engines, I should use a switch which takes the charging load completely off the engine batteries if I need to charge the house bank from the engines.
If I would want it on both, I'd need to add a blocking diode in between house battery and the starter battery.

Do I need a charge controller between engines and batteries?
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Old 03-03-2018, 10:28   #8
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Re: Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

Hi John.

Here a revised scheme.

I understand that ideally the PV panels each have a separate controller.
At the moment all panels run over two Sunware Fox 100 controllers.
The Rutland controller is new.

So I would now branch the starter battery PV panel out and give one of the controllers to it.
The other double panels use the Rutland and Sunware controller.
Later I might add two more controllers so that each panel has its own.
Alternatively add one controller which can handle two panels separately.

I'll also add another house battery now.

Last not least, if I have to choose between the blocking diode, full switch or an extra charger controller to connect the engines to the house bank what would be preferable?

Thanks for your support!!!
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Old 03-03-2018, 10:41   #9
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Re: Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

No problem and no big deal

I'm not at all familiar with the Rutlands controller, I would test against a single SC of choice and then let efficiency results decide.

The 1:1 SC to panel ratio is best for handling shading issues, but is unusual, and only becomes cost effective with quality units like the smaller Victrons now getting so inexpensive.

Maximizing the output per SC would require buying panels that specifically match their specs, higher voltages take better advantage of MPPT efficiencies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
Regarding the switch over option for the charging of the house bank through the engines, I should use a switch which takes the charging load completely off the engine batteries if I need to charge the house bank from the engines.

If I would want it on both, I'd need to add a blocking diode in between house battery and the starter battery.
No, go back and read what I wrote. No diodes, no manual switching of charge sources, everything gets charged together, isolate/combine handled automatically.

The alternators should charge the House bank directly. A quality Voltage Regulator like Balmar MC-614 will help, many stock alt setups don't charge deep cycle banks properly, test yours with a good DMM and ammeter.

Or leave alts wired to Starters and put in a DC-DC charger going to House, but high-amp units cost a lot too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
Do I need a charge controller between engines and batteries?
That's the VR.
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Old 03-03-2018, 10:46   #10
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Re: Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
Here a revised scheme.
We cross-posted, but most areas already covered above. If anything is unclear, maybe google a bit, then post specific Q's on each term or topic you need help with.

If your existing House bank is old, don't add new batts, all should be the same model and age.
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Old 03-03-2018, 11:30   #11
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Re: Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

Ok.

Two things I still did not get/misunderstood.

1)
The two outboard alternators connect to the (new by you suggested) VR input.
The VR has then has two output terminals, one to the house bank and one to the starter battery? Correct?

2)
The PV panel to the starter battery stays completely dedicated to the starter battery.
Correct?

Does that VR have
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Old 03-03-2018, 11:48   #12
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Re: Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

Most VRs are one per alt. Balmar makes a unit call Centerfielder, worth investigating.

Outboards? Maybe if low amps, not worth the high cost of converting.

The key concept is **all** significant charge sources go to House bank directly.

Then the echo charger or ACR takes care of the very minor job keeping Starter topped up.

A small contributor on the Starter side will require a two-way combiner / ACR, if you want it to also help charge House, not one-way like Echo Charger.

Or keep the two banks separate, but that isn't as efficient as getting all charge sources helping get House recharged, starter really needs hardly any power at all to keep charged.
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Old 03-03-2018, 11:50   #13
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Re: Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

I have only two Yamaha 9.9 outboards. No other engine.
Yamaha claims a max output of 6.6Amp from each of them.
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Old 03-03-2018, 12:17   #14
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Re: Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

Then maybe just keep them as is on the Starter batt, hardly worth messing with.

Get a two-way combiner/ACR so **all** charge sources from either side contribute to charging both banks.

If you're worried about Starter going flat sometimes, put in a 1-2 **use** switch to crank engines off House when needed (no Both), or a high-end ACR will have a momentary Combine override for self jump-starting.

This one's the best ​ https://www.bluesea.com/products/762..._-_12V_DC_500A

Overkill for your case but will last forever.
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Old 03-03-2018, 13:17   #15
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Re: Integration of wind generator in my specific system.

Actually I was more worried about house going flat.
Never had an issue so far with starting power.

Still good idea with the momentary emergency jump start option. Might even just keep a starter cable on board for that (KISS).

But with the dedicated solar and engines connected while running starter should never go flat (unless there is something else wrong).
Very worst case I could even handstart

In an emergency the starter cable could probably also work in the other direction to provide emergency house power for a while for a nav instrument or the autopilot.

Thanks again for your input!
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