Adding a bow battery parallel to house bank

[captstu]

I relocated my boat’s batteries for better trim. And to have a battery closer to the windless and the bow thruster. See the website:

Shearwater-sailing.com

And look at battery relocation.

The thruster and windless are both faster and smoother.

[CaptainJohn49]

This is an interesting discussion. I have a manual winch but I have wondered about having a third battery for the radio and lights. I’d separate that battery from the mains via a knife switch and connect it to the mains only for charging. Complete separation in case there was an electrical problem. Sorry off topic.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by CaptainJohn49

This is an interesting discussion. I have a manual winch but I have wondered about having a third battery for the radio and lights. I’d separate that battery from the mains via a knife switch and connect it to the mains only for charging. Complete separation in case there was an electrical problem. Sorry off topic.

A bit off topic but worthy of a response because it is relevant to any situation where batteries are remote from the main bank and for a dedicated task.

Manual anything is an invitation to problems. An Automatic Charge Relay is the way to go. It will parallel the batteries when it senses charging voltage from any source on any battery and will disconnect anytime the charging voltage goes away. No forgetting to join the batteries and no forgetting to separate them. Not separating them will cause the stronger battery bank to discharge into the weaker one.

I like Yandina combiners, primarily because I have had one between my engine start battery and house bank for about 20 years now without a failure. No interest in the company, just a happy customer.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by stormalong

...Manual anything is an invitation to problems...

Electrical anything is an invitation to problems!

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Electrical anything is an invitation to problems!

Only if you don't take the time to learn how to do it right and then do it right. I rewired my entire boat 20 years ago and have had near zero changes/problems. I have some instruments on board that are original to the boat - 33 years and working great. I installed 2/0 windlass wiring in 1991 and it is as good as the day it was installed.

Yes, there is some luck involved but proper methods and good quality components makes for good luck. I can't tell you how many times I have been asked to look at other boat's electrical issues only to discover rat's nests wiring nightmares done by so called professionals.

[AZ-Oldguy]

Maybe you could check your bow rollers. When I went to all chain Rode with a 45 pound anchor on my Endurance 45 and let out more than 60 feet of chain my Muir Cougar kept tripping its breaker. I discovered that the old rubber rollers that the chain ran over were being squeezed by the chain so that they bound on the half inch bolts that went through them. As the weight of the chain increased the friction increased until The Windlass couldn't raise the anchor. It would then trip the breaker. I replaced those rubber rollers with Delrin Rollers on bronze bushings and it runs as sweet as can be. It breaks out the anchor when I am single handed and I have never tripped the breaker since I did that replacement.

[Tomhanaway]

A couple of bits of additional information.
The cable wire is 2/0, not 2.
I replaced the roller with a new Delrin one.
Voltage drop when pulling up anchor is from a start of 12.5 down to 11.5.

One additional clarification. When I talk about the anchor not breaking from a gentle set, what I mean is that the windless is either pulling at a consistent speed or it stops completely. There is no in between point where it seems to be straining or slowing down.

Thanks,
Tom Hanaway

[Sailmonkey]

When the windlass stops completely does releasing the control and re-engaging start the windlass immediately?

That sounds like your control voltage is dropping and the contactor is opening.

[Tomhanaway]

I don’t quite understand. By control do you mean the up/down foot pedals? I can re test that.

For control voltage, are you talking about the solenoid relay which is where the leads to the up/down foot pedals connect? Please clarify control voltage so I know what to look for.

Thanks,
Tom

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

When the windlass stops completely does releasing the control and re-engaging start the windlass immediately?

That sounds like your control voltage is dropping and the contactor is opening.

[KTP]

If you are getting a 1 volt drop across 0.0036 ohms, that means either the winch is pulling 277 amps or your battery bank is not in as good a shape as you think it is. What is the recommended breaker or fuse for this particular winch by the way? Have you ever tripped it?

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Tomhanaway

I don’t quite understand. By control do you mean the up/down foot pedals? I can re test that.

For control voltage, are you talking about the solenoid relay which is where the leads to the up/down foot pedals connect? Please clarify control voltage so I know what to look for.

Thanks,
Tom

Ok, so you use foot switches. There are two styles, full load current, low current.

If the big heavy wires are attached to the foot switches, they’re passing the full current through them.

If they’ve small wires attached, then they’re operating solenoids. The solenoids require a certain amount of voltage to make contact, then (usually) less voltage to maintain the contact.
If the voltage available to these solenoids is already a volt lower than the battery voltage (possible is there are very small wires, loose or dirty connections) then when the windlass pulls the line voltage down the solenoid will open, stopping the windlass.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Tomhanaway

One additional clarification. When I talk about the anchor not breaking from a gentle set, what I mean is that the windless is either pulling at a consistent speed or it stops completely. There is no in between point where it seems to be straining or slowing down.

Tom, the voltage drop you are measuring is reasonably typical. It would be nice to know how much of the drop is from the wiring and connections and how much is from voltage sag of the batteries. This can be measured. However, in your case this would be of academic interest only. The measurements show a battery in the bow is not worth the complication.

However, the windlass stopping completely is not normal especially without any straining or slowing down,as you report, unless you just mean the clutch is slipping. If the windlass motor itself is stopping, unless you are applying an extraordinary force trying to break out the anchor, it indicates there is problem somewhere.

If you measure the voltage at the windlass terminals if the motor stops (with the up button still depressed) it will help isolate the problem. For example, if the motor stops and the windlass terminal voltage is reading 11.5v as you post suggests, then there is almost certainly an electrical problem inside the motor (brush problems are most common). In other words a defective motor rather than any issue with the wiring.

[Tomhanaway]

Ok, I believe we’re getting some where.
To answer the questions:
Using the Maxwell supplied circuit breaker-135 amp and it has never tripped. I spent some time on the battery bank equalizing the batteries. Presently, the no load resting voltage stays at 12.8 volts.

The wires to the foot pedals are smallish, maybe 10awg. It’s very likely that there’s corrosion in some of these wires since they’ve been there since 2005 in a salt water environment. When I was working my way through the wiring, one of the small solenoid wires pulled loose and was completely sulphated (greenish powder coating).

So it looks like my next step is to replace all the small leads coming out of the solenoid.
Additionally, if the battery bank is not in as good shape as I believe, wouldn’t my original plan of adding a battery in parallel at the bow compensate for this. I don’t have access to a load tester for the house bank and am not really excited about pulling out the 4d’s to take to a battery store for testing. House bank works fine otherwise as we can stay on hook for several days without running generator.

[SV Elizabeth]

We have a battery in our anchor locker with short runs/large diameter (OO) cables to the windlass. That battery is fed/recharged off the house bank by a long run of smaller (#4, I think). Previous owner' system; all I've ever done is replace the battery and keep the connections clean and dosed with corrosion protector. Works great.

[Tomhanaway]

Yes, I meant stop completely, not slippage. Definitely not extraordinary force, that’s what has had me so puzzled. I have never considered that a new in box windless would be defective.

Tom

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Tom, the voltage drop you are measuring is reasonably typical. It would be nice to know how much of the drop is from the wiring and connections and how much is from voltage sag of the batteries. This can be measured. However, in your case this would be of academic interest only. The measurements show a battery in the bow is not worth the complication.

However, the windlass stopping completely is not normal especially without any straining or slowing down,as you report, unless you just mean the clutch is slipping. If the windlass motor itself is stopping, unless you are applying an extraordinary force trying to break out the anchor, it indicates there is problem somewhere.

If you measure the voltage at the windlass terminals if the windlass motor stops it will help isolate the problem. For example, if the motor stops and the terminal voltage is still reading 11.5v as you post suggests, then there is almost certainly an electrical problem inside the motor (brush problems are most common). In other words a defective motor rather than any issue with the wiring.