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Old 26-12-2013, 18:46   #16
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Re: 32 volt, 12 volt, 120ac

Hey bglad

I will change over the gauges as they have seen better days..

I agree... There are to many voltages at this time !

This old Bertram deserves a refit !!!

Alan
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Old 27-12-2013, 06:04   #17
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Re: 32 volt, 12 volt, 120ac

This is an additional "piece meal" comment and take it as such. If you would like to add some piece of mind regarding your comment: "The only thing that bothers me is that green ac earth wire.... What if the dock I plug into is wired wrong? would it energize the Bonding system and blow some breaker? or burn up my DC side? Is there protection from this? ac on boats makes me nervous... I know its everywhere and I have to have it but....." then consider installing ELCI type breakers on your shore power inlets. They detect when current has gone astray and trip. Blue Sea Systems is one vendor who offers these: ELCI and GFCI - Blue Sea Systems

I don't know if these will trip if dock power is wired improperly but they won't let significant faults persist.
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Old 27-12-2013, 06:11   #18
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Re: 32 volt, 12 volt, 120ac

Hello,

Once you plug into the shore power at the deck, go inside the vessel and your AC panel should have a indicator light that says "reverse polarity". If the light is off. You are good to energize your AC circuits. If this light is on, turn the power off at the shore, and have the marina come to inspect.

Alan
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Old 27-12-2013, 07:56   #19
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Re: 32 volt, 12 volt, 120ac

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrayfield View Post

The only thing that bothers me is that green ac earth wire.... What if the dock I plug into is wired wrong? would it energize the Bonding system and blow some breaker? or burn up my DC side? Is there protection from this? ac on boats makes me nervous... I know its everywhere and I have to have it but.....
Not very likely. If dock ground was hot nothing on any boat plugged into that outlet would ever work. Reverse polarity (reversal of hot and neutral connections) is the only issue you will ever come across and as posted the indicator that should be part of your panel will let you know this.
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Old 30-12-2013, 19:56   #20
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Re: 32 volt, 12 volt, 120ac

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Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
You might want to look into eliminating the 32 volt system all together. The biggest expense in converting a 32 volt boat to 12 or 24 volt is the cost of new starters and alternators. You've already got that expense taken care of. Take a look at your equipment and see if any of it would need to be replaced. Take a look at the size of the wires. Would any of them need to be larger? It might be worth the effort and expense to eliminate the 32 volt system and standardize on 12 volts for your DC system.

Sorry for the late replies, holidays and all....
I have a load worth of deck winches / centerboard motors / and windlasses, if I had to repace all of those I know it would be in the $30,000 dollar range, I kinda looked it up. The 32 volt Ideal Windlases weigh in at several hundred pounds per unit, They are 1970 era though, two of them, one on the bow and stern, the boat was in the med for a while backing into a quay I guess? these things seem strong enough to pull it down ....

I did look at Nigel Calder's book "Mechanical and Electrical Manual third edition" since I first posted and found chapter five to confirm that all the dc grounds and the ac green are connected to each other through the Bonding system, I also checked out the ABYC Specifications and it also confirmed that...

I am sure there are reliable Marine Electricians that I could hire, but none that I have found in Alabama seem to know anything about sailboats. Being in the charter industry I find that I answer questions for alot of people around here just from experience, only because I stay on the water 8-12 or so hours a day in the summer.

So this new boat I am working on is my Winter boat to charter in the Caribbean.. Just needs some reworking..


Thanks for all those who replied, sorry for my delay in getting back. I'm gonna start a new thread about a Custom Electrical Panel next.. If you have ideas on a company who can create this for me, please chime in!

Thanks
Ryan
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Old 30-12-2013, 20:25   #21
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Re: 32 volt, 12 volt, 120ac

The best panel maker I know is Mark Rogers
www.wewireboats.com

Amazing work.
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Old 30-12-2013, 21:00   #22
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Re: 32 volt, 12 volt, 120ac

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Old 31-12-2013, 01:44   #23
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Re: 32 volt, 12 volt, 120ac

Hello,

Stepping into the 32v side of the topic...

Does anyone know the proper bulk, absorb, and float voltages a 32v bank charger should be ?

Alan
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Old 31-12-2013, 06:06   #24
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The DC grounding is all the same but you will need to use cabling large enough to maintain voltage for the 12 volt system even though the 32 voltl system may not need the larger size.

Assuming you mean 2 x 30 amp cords at 120 volts you will not have 240 volts aboard. If you want that you will need to change to a single 240 x 50 amp cord which is not a bad idea if you are the USA but everyone has their own ideas about that. If what you have is working nothing wrong with it.

The earth does come into play. The way I explain it is your boat is like any other appliance that uses 120 volts. All its metallic components should be grounded to eleminate electric shock hazard. When you connect the AC green ground to the DC negative buss you provide safety. AC faults to DC equipment will trip the offending circuits breaker.

I assume you mean lightning system by llighting system? It serves two purposes. It does provide a bit of protection from lightning. In most boats today it is referred to as a bonding system. With all the metals you have underwater connecting them together and to a bar type zinc may be in order. Connecting all your underwater metals together then to a zinc gives them something to chew on besides each other. This system is also supposed to connect to the DC negative buss. Now you have the DC negative, AC green ground and bonding systems connected. Your appliance (boat) is fully protected.

Lastly consider installing a galvanic isolator on your AC green ground where it comes aboard if you don't have one already or transformers. It will help reduce the chance of bringing stray current aboard while using shore power.
This is good , albeit American ABYC advice for a glass boat , it is not good advice for a steel one. ( hint isolate everything not ground it )

Dave
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Old 31-12-2013, 06:08   #25
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Originally Posted by Hkalan View Post
Hello,

Once you plug into the shore power at the deck, go inside the vessel and your AC panel should have a indicator light that says "reverse polarity". If the light is off. You are good to energize your AC circuits. If this light is on, turn the power off at the shore, and have the marina come to inspect.

Alan
Don't ever come into a European marina with floating neutrals then !!! , in my opinion any AC system should be safe even if operated with reverse polarity. It's one of the areas I disagree with ABYC practice ( which is too US centric and not world suitable)

Dave
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Old 31-12-2013, 10:54   #26
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Re: 32 volt, 12 volt, 120ac

Dave, ABYC Practice isn't isolation to themselves. They follow our National Electric Code/Fire Code. Also if you look at the Electrical Standards developed for our Commuter and Mass Transit Electrical near Identical to ABYC.

Not to mention Screen Light & Grip Industry Standards. Have a look at anything Guy Holt has written on the subject. This is a good read of Guy Holt

Here is a good Google for some more Guy Holt reads.

Lloyd

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Don't ever come into a European marina with floating neutrals then !!! , in my opinion any AC system should be safe even if operated with reverse polarity. It's one of the areas I disagree with ABYC practice ( which is too US centric and not world suitable)

Dave
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Old 31-12-2013, 18:20   #27
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Dave, ABYC Practice isn't isolation to themselves. They follow our National Electric Code/Fire Code. Also if you look at the Electrical Standards developed for our Commuter and Mass Transit Electrical near Identical to ABYC.

Not to mention Screen Light & Grip Industry Standards. Have a look at anything Guy Holt has written on the subject. This is a good read of Guy Holt

Here is a good Google for some more Guy Holt reads.

Lloyd
ABYC is a standard developed for GRP boats. It does not suit steel well. Equally land based standards have no real application on board a vessel as there are totally different configurations at work

My preference is an isolated AC system fed by an isolation transformer , no DC interconnect , floating DC , hull inert. Do not bond underwater fittings as in a steel hull they should be isolated.

Here's a man that knows steel http://www.kastenmarine.com/corrosion.htm pay particular attention to the section on bonding and electrical systems

Dave
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Old 01-01-2014, 16:36   #28
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Re: 32 volt, 12 volt, 120ac

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Originally Posted by Hkalan View Post
Hello,

Stepping into the 32v side of the topic...

Does anyone know the proper bulk, absorb, and float voltages a 32v bank charger should be ?

Alan
Absorb voltages should be 38.3 - 39v (temp matters)
Float should be in the 36.5 range

Most boats with Deka 8-19 8v batteries building up 32v systems tend to undercharge. We like the Outback 3232 series inverter chargers and the newmar 32v chargers

SB
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