Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-12-2011, 00:15   #106
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4
Re: Purchasing and Commissioning

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzemoi View Post
Hi Rolf,

We have also purchased an L450, our dealer is Apaca in Hyeres, France. I don't know the hull number but delivery will also be end of March, so we will most probably meet at delivery. This is my first boat, so I have limited experience. Lagoon will let me make changes until the 5th of December so I will tag along to your chat to benefit from your and the forum insights.

One thing I realized is that it is cheaper to select the options that Lagoon offers versus hiring a contractor such as Pochon to do the work, as the contractor will charge you separately for the installation. For example I was thinking to install Garmin electronics instead of Raymarine as I had received some negative feeback on Raymarine. I received an estimate from Pochon ( marine electronic contractor in la Rochelle), the cost of electronics ( Radar, VHF, AIS, Plotter) was almost the same as Raymarine, but I would cost 3K Euro extra for installation. So in the end I am sticking to Raymarine and let Lagoon install it.

Genaker: I will order the one from Lagoon. Apaca and a delivery skipper I working with suggested the sail provided by lagoon is fine for cruising. After doing some research I will also buy a Parasailor for downwind. You can find some threads on this forum and on the Yahoo lagoon forum. I highly suggest you to take a look at the Yahoo lagoon forum as well, lots of information on Lagoon catamaran.

Generator: APACA insisted that I get the 11KWA if I plan to use A/C, the 5KWA was too small. I was planning to stick the one provided by Lagoon Onan, but I am looking forward to read what responses you get from the forum regarding your option.

Electric toilets: Apaca did recommend them. I will challenge them again. It would be great if you could provide any feedback why your dealer does not recommend it.

Watermaker: Apaca will install a Dessalator 220 v 100 L/h, they claim it works well, is a simple system with no electronics hence it is easier to fix. It seems that when lagoon installs it you lose one water tank but Apaca have found an alternative installation that lets you keep the water tank.

A/C: I have not made my mind yet, my wife really wants to get it as we have two toddlers and she feels it is necessary to make them sleep inside when is hot and/or they get seasick. I am still doing research to understand if it is a “must” to cruise with kids in the Caribbeans and the pacific islands. Initially I wanted to install instead diesel heater, as we might need it in the Med initially and after our trip. I am not sure the heat from the reversible A/C will be enough taking into account water needs to be +10c to work. Though one thing Apaca told me is that I need to choose one or the other, so I cannot install both. Moreover, they claim it is much easier and cleaner to have lagoon install them as it is done at an early stage of the boat construction.
Solar panels: I am installing 3x135W. I was under the impression you could only fit 3 max on the davits. I will check with Apaca and revert back. I will take a look at the semi-flexible ones.

Gaz Stove: Apaca has proposed me to change the standard 3 gas stove with a custom made solution 4 gas stove. I am waiting for an estimate and some pics I will share them when I get them.
110V-220V: Apaca does not recommend that I set up both 110v and 220v, they claim that they have not found a reliable and safe solution. This summer I spent some time on a Salina, that had both 110v and 220v, Pochon made the installation but they kept having recurrent problems when using 110v. I have done some research on this forum as there are many threads on this topic, but my knowledge in electricity is very limited so I have to rely on what Apace tells me for now. Have you done any work on this issue?



As you can see I am relying a lot on Apaca on my decisions and so far I am very happy with them, but it is always great to be able to contrast opinions.


Regards,


Gonzalo
Dear Gonzalo

I have just got my new Lagoon #76. She was commissioned in Singapore and I just brought her in Phuket. I took most of options because after checking around when you want to add stuff yourself is never the same finishing and if any problems Lagoon may discuss guaranty claim. Apaca is a big dealer and they do love sell stuff by themselves (bigger commission)

Otherwise the water maker was great either working on 24V or 220V.

I took the 11KV Generator but I never used it in 1 week but I have been using a lot the engines...and A/C were practically never on.

My only problems were on this famous "automatic single line reefing". I think in Singapore they did not know how to assemble them. I use a square main sail. When I reef I am block against block what it is not all normal...

I hope somebody could tell me how to assemble this single line reefing because here everybody get confused...

Thierry
__________________

__________________
Thierry83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 02:38   #107
Registered User
 
careka's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Egersund,Norway
Boat: Lagoon380 Comfort#637
Posts: 704
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to careka
Re: Purchasing and Commissioning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thierry83 View Post
Dear Gonzalo

I hope somebody could tell me how to assemble this single line reefing because here everybody get confused...

Thierry
Normaly it goes from the back of the boom and up to your aft blok, down and into the boom, comes back out and goes up to you FW block and down to you mast,in a block and back to your steering pos, on a cluch,
hope that was easy to understand.
2 revs goes like this, and ref #3 if you have it is with no ropes made up.

__________________

__________________
careka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 04:52   #108
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4
Re: Purchasing and Commissioning

Thanks for the answer. I will try and come back to you if it works...Hope I understood well...

Thierry
__________________
Thierry83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 11:17   #109
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winter Bahamas - Summer BC
Boat: Lagoon 450, Bavaria Vision 40
Posts: 615
Sungle line reefing

Hi Thierry
The L450 we just recently chartered had three reefs set up. Reefs #1 and #2 where set up as single line reefs, as described by Careka.
Reef #3 is only led to the leech. At the luff you have to go to the mast and put the cringle into a hook manually.

Here goes my description for the single line reef, just in case Careka's description was not clear enough.
- Starting at the boom end. Near the boom end you should have 3 attachment points forward of the main's clew. Reef #1 is just a tad forward of the clew (green-white line in my picture), while reefs #2 (blue-white) and #3 (red-white) are further forward.
- From these attachment points each line goes through a block that is attached at the corresponding reef points in the main's leech and from there the lines go back to turning blocks in the end of the boom (there will be one for each reef line)
- In the boom the lines go to turning blocks at the forward end. Lines for reef #1 and #2 go up the luff to the turning blocks at the corresponding reef point points and down to turning blocks at the base of the mast. Reef line #3 goes directly down to the mast base turning block.
- From the mast base the reef lines go to the cleats at the fly bridge.

I hope this helps

Rolf
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2011-12-04 at 9.58.59 AM.png
Views:	279
Size:	327.4 KB
ID:	34391   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2011-12-04 at 10.14.01 AM.png
Views:	279
Size:	11.3 KB
ID:	34392  

__________________
roetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 11:29   #110
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4
Re: Sungle line reefing

Quote:
Originally Posted by roetter View Post
Hi Thierry
The L450 we just recently chartered had three reefs set up. Reefs #1 and #2 where set up as single line reefs, as described by Careka.
Reef #3 is only led to the leech. At the luff you have to go to the mast and put the cringle into a hook manually.

Here goes my description for the single line reef, just in case Careka's description was not clear enough.
- Starting at the boom end. Near the boom end you should have 3 attachment points forward of the main's clew. Reef #1 is just a tad forward of the clew (green-white line in my picture), while reefs #2 (blue-white) and #3 (red-white) are further forward.
- From these attachment points each line goes through a block that is attached at the corresponding reef points in the main's leech and from there the lines go back to turning blocks in the end of the boom (there will be one for each reef line)
- In the boom the lines go to turning blocks at the forward end. Lines for reef #1 and #2 go up the luff to the turning blocks at the corresponding reef point points and down to turning blocks at the base of the mast. Reef line #3 goes directly down to the mast base turning block.
- From the mast base the reef lines go to the cleats at the fly bridge.

I hope this helps

Rolf
Hi

Thanks, it helps! Did you get the problem to have the blocks in contact, the one on the main sail and the one on the mast?

Thierry
__________________
Thierry83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 15:44   #111
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winter Bahamas - Summer BC
Boat: Lagoon 450, Bavaria Vision 40
Posts: 615
Re: Purchasing and Commissioning

Thierry

I am not sure what you mean?
We only reefed the main once, and had no problem, except for finding one reef block sheave split in two on the deck. This was due to a manufacturing problem at Harken. The plastic had a small void in it that made the sheave weak.

Both, the luff blocks and the leech blocks would be pulled right down to the boom, making contact there.

Do you have a picture of your problem?

Rolf
__________________
roetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2011, 15:48   #112
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winter Bahamas - Summer BC
Boat: Lagoon 450, Bavaria Vision 40
Posts: 615
Re: Purchasing and Commissioning

I went to Les Sables yesterday and paid a short visit to SAS. Lagoon contracts SAS to finalize the Lagoons 380-450 (set up mast, anti-fouling, anchor, etc) and put them into the water. They had three L450s on the hard and at least one 450 on the dock. Into total there must have been more than a dozen Lagoons being launched. SAS looks quite professional. I saw an interesting solar panel mount on the davits. Unfortunately, I forgot to take a picture. Probably worthwhile investing this option with SAS if you don't really like the heavy design Lagoon offers.
__________________
roetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2011, 22:42   #113
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4
Re: Purchasing and Commissioning

Hi

I fully agree. For my next boat I will not get from Lagoon fenders, anchor, etc... because there are under designed. I bought a new set...

Regarding to commissioning you are right better go with high professional people otherwise you are ending like me with a boat where you need to make modifications.

Next week will try to modify the reefing system when I am back on her.

Thierry
__________________
Thierry83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 00:38   #114
D&D
Marine Service Provider
 
D&D's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Blue Mountains, Australia
Boat: now working Syd Harbour charters
Posts: 1,459
Re: Purchasing and Commissioning

Quote:
Originally Posted by roetter View Post
Both, the luff blocks and the leech blocks would be pulled right down to the boom, making contact there.
This (and other posts before) is the exact description of the L440 reefing lines. So it sounds like the reefing setup was carried through unchanged after the other design modifications.

We note roetter's remarks above particularly to warn others not to allow the blocks to make contact with the boom. Under stress (the type of conditions associated with reefing, of course!) the block can bang against the boom resulting almost certainly in damage to the sheaves, or possibly worse damage to the block itself.

We find it works to haul the luff down until the desired block is positioned just above (but still clear of) the boom (or, in the case of the third reef, the anchor is fixed) and then cleat off the halyard before hauling in on the reefing line to bring the leech to a position also just above the boom.

Another tip is to ensure the lower reefing lines are secured, i.e. the first reefing line is secured when sailing with the second reef, to minimise wind (or, worse, water) creeping into the lower, reefed portion of the sail.

Happy sailing all you L450's! Sounds like there's already a fair few of you!
__________________
D&D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 06:27   #115
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Amsterdam
Boat: Lagoon 500
Posts: 21
Images: 1
Re: Purchasing and Commissioning

A
Quote:
RC Atlantic Rally for Cruisers
Is anybody following the progress of the ARC that started 10 days ago?

World Cruising Club Arc fleet viewer

Since we are already signed up for next years ARC with our 450 we are following it closely. Unfortunately there are no 450's in it this year. Some 440's though and three 560's. Amazing to see that a 560 is leading (on corrected time), but is also third closest to the finish. This is great, considering that the other two boats ahead are a Gunboat 66 and a Barreau 71. This means the 560 really sails well. A second 560 is not too far behind, next to a Privilleg 745.
A 440 is second on corrected time and in the front of the pack.

I hope we can show how well the 450 performs in the ARC 2012.

Rolf
Hi Rolf,

No 500 in this years ARC as well :-( ....... so we hope to race you in next years ARC and see if the both of us can keep up eith the 560's :-)

Patrick
__________________
"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused..."
Poco Loco III is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 14:13   #116
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winter Bahamas - Summer BC
Boat: Lagoon 450, Bavaria Vision 40
Posts: 615
Re: Purchasing and Commissioning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poco Loco III View Post
A

Hi Rolf,

No 500 in this years ARC as well :-( ....... so we hope to race you in next years ARC and see if the both of us can keep up eith the 560's :-)

Patrick
So far I have heard so far of four L450s signed up for the ARC 2012. Let's make this the largest L450 ARC ever. Hope more are signing up.

Rolf
__________________
roetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2011, 14:37   #117
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winter Bahamas - Summer BC
Boat: Lagoon 450, Bavaria Vision 40
Posts: 615
Re: Purchasing and Commissioning

Hi Impi
We purchased a Parasailor in Paris at the boat show. 169 sqm for the L450. The Incidences asymmetric is 160 while the symmetric one is 190 sqm. So this one is between the two in size. We will report once we have put it through all the tests.
Rolf
__________________
roetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2011, 12:27   #118
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winter Bahamas - Summer BC
Boat: Lagoon 450, Bavaria Vision 40
Posts: 615
Re: Purchasing and Commissioning

At the Paris boat show we met with several companies to discuss installing equipment (i.e. Solar Panels, full width bimini, generator). We are now waiting for quotes.
Below are some pictures of the bimini design I am waiting for quotes for.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2011-12-17 at 11.23.46 AM.png
Views:	323
Size:	77.5 KB
ID:	34833  
__________________
roetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2011, 12:33   #119
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winter Bahamas - Summer BC
Boat: Lagoon 450, Bavaria Vision 40
Posts: 615
Re: Purchasing and Commissioning

Quote:
Originally Posted by roetter View Post
So far I have heard so far of four L450s signed up for the ARC 2012. Let's make this the largest L450 ARC ever. Hope more are signing up.

Rolf
Hi Patrick

Yes - let's give the the 560's a run for their money - literally. I was truly surprised to see how fast the 560's were in the ARC. Would be interesting to see which sails they were using.

Does anybody know which cats were using Parasailors in the ARC?
Rolf
__________________
roetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2011, 13:14   #120
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winter Bahamas - Summer BC
Boat: Lagoon 450, Bavaria Vision 40
Posts: 615
Re: Purchasing and Commissioning

Here is a simple 3D CAD model of the solar panel arrangement I am planning on our 450. We are waiting for price quotes on this design.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2011-12-17 at 12.11.32 PM.png
Views:	313
Size:	54.9 KB
ID:	34834  
__________________

__________________
roetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
purchasing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:25.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.