General Info: Lagoon Owners Please Check Your Links.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by boom23

Just FYI, my tie-rods have the following writing on them "FLURO GI 20".
It might help in locating spares.

And just by searching the web (I LOVE INTERNET!!!), I found this information about it:

Fluro Rod End GI 20 - Brd. Klee

That's good info, when i get time i'll cross reference to SKF equivalents. Thanks.

[boom23]

Lagoon4us,

What is your thought about the SS bolt in the Tiller arm?
How can we improve the design?

[Lagoon4us]

Well our boat is 5 years old and the 4 bolts each side look in very good condition. When i adjust the arms for the Ackerman style i'll cover the thread ends with 'DURALAC' just to reduce any future problems.
Two heavy duty clamps one above and one below each tiller boss might be a thought??

When you tighten the clamp up (i did today when i slipped the tillers down a bit) there's still 2mm+ gapping so the crush is fairly strong.

I think the emergency steel tiller arm they give you is fairly crude, i'd hate to have to revert to it if there was a need.

Looking at why you'd need the emergency tiller i guess the cables would have to be broken and the autopilot dead, two things unlikely to occur concurrently. I think i'll look at a better emergency tiller, something with some length/leverage to it. And i'll keep a look out for a second hand stand alone Autopilot, imagine it failing with 3weeks sailing in front of you!!! AAaaggghhhhhhhh!!!!

Cheers Frank

[impi]

Hi Frank,

Love this thread ... been out at sea with limited internet and having just arrived in Fort Lauderdale now am on-line again so had missed your posts.

Looking at your photos, I would assume you checked the shimming between the rudder and the 'hull'? There is a teflon (?) shim and sometimes if one floats the rudder out to check sleeve for wear, a shim could dissappear and if reassembled this would causte the rudder arm to 'ride higher' having the result of the tube meeting the life raft box. Ours clears it pretty well but I do make sure those shims are on each time I re-fit the rudders.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by impi

Hi Frank,

Love this thread ... been out at sea with limited internet and having just arrived in Fort Lauderdale now am on-line again so had missed your posts.

Looking at your photos, I would assume you checked the shimming between the rudder and the 'hull'? There is a teflon (?) shim and sometimes if one floats the rudder out to check sleeve for wear, a shim could dissappear and if reassembled this would causte the rudder arm to 'ride higher' having the result of the tube meeting the life raft box. Ours clears it pretty well but I do make sure those shims are on each time I re-fit the rudders.

Hey there,

Good point no the shim was nicely sitting between the pinned upper sleeve and the rudder bearing housing. I think someone ignorant set the tiller arms a little high... Did you fly to Fort Lauderdale?

Cheers Frank

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

The second advantage is that these Lagoon's can be set up for 'ACKERMAN' style steering alignment which i shall do when slipped next (Greece in about 3 months), Having your rudders set using Ackerman alignment gives you less turbulence on tight turns whether sailing or motoring.

FWIW, FP uses angled arms to achieve Ackermann geometry on the rudders. As you set yours up, it may be valuable to reverse engineer the numbers using my boat as a starting point. On my boat rudders arms are 14" long and 2.5" in from the center of the rudder post. Meaning the tie rod is 5" shorter than the rudder posts are apart (at 14" off). This ratio (14:2.5) might help you to figure out a starting value for your boat. Hopefully you can shorten the tie rod enough to achieve your goal.

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Sailing wise it will get rid of a lot of rudder drag, turn on a sixpence almost!

Not sure I would agree with "a lot of rudder drag", but it would help 'some'. Most sailing is in a straight line and the rudders only turned a few degrees to offset weather helm. The affects of Ackermann are negligible in a couple of degrees of turn.

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

If the tiller arms were keyed to the shafts you would have to make new arms to achieve this worthwhile function.

[Lagoon4us]

Cheers for that, i did a drawing a while ago working out the angles needed just not on the 'to do' list yet. And have to check on whether the thread length will allow it without drilling new holes etc.

Our boats are similar lengths, the math is worked back to a workable turning radius and i reckon it would be only a couple of inches in it.

I did it on my Tourissimo and on a turn there was nil cavitation or 'snarkle'.
My main point is in tacking where the drag is reduced certainly not straight line sailing.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

My main point is in tacking where the drag is reduced certainly not straight line sailing.

Tacking! Absolutely help! It may even be enough to get you through that light wind tack and impress the crew for not going into irons!!

I had straight line sailing in my head when I read your message, doh!

[Lagoon4us]

That's cool years ago i had a small sailing cat without ackerman, when you tacked hard there were noisy vortices sucking down the blade sides it wasn't hard to figure why with the rudders so wide apart.

Some get confused with setting some toe in or out which is just silly, the secret is in the different radiuses caused by the beam of a cat resulting in 'tight turn stalling'.

Cheers

[DRS]

if I remember correctly from doing my rudder bearings last year there is a substaintial sized pin (1/2 inch thick by 4 inces long) that passes through the rudder post and into the clamp on the tiller arm

[Lagoon4us]

Ok, the ally tiller arm didn't on either side but the collar just below has a through pin and the collar has the teflon washer beneath.
Are 380's composite glass shaft?

[2Wind]

Frank,
like yours, my tie rod/beam rubs on the underside of the fibreglass recepticle for the life raft. As you had suggested I had thought about lowering the height of the tiler arms at the rudder post, but noted that as the height is lowered, the telfon guide (that you show in second left photo) becomes non horizontal in its slot and would end up at a significant angle to the guide slot if the height was reduced by as 2cm as I think would be required for adequate clearance. I was wondering how this worked out for you and were there any issues?
Upon reflection, the Teflon slot is actually cut much too wide in anycase making you wonder about its utility as a guide/stabilizer for the tie beam. I am also of the view that in permitting excessive up down movement on minor rotation of the rod, it creates scope for knocking particularly in a following sea when the rudders are loaded and unloaded. I've found this a little annoying when trying to sleep in the STBD aft cabin when underway. Was the Teflon guide orientation an issue for you? I suspect it just a waste of time?

Cheers.

[Lagoon4us]

Haven't noticed any issues with the Teflon/guide at all. Really that support should be double sided so that the aluminium link sits flat ins tea of being rotated by a guide that's on one side only.....

Our steering is exceptionally light we get a degree of helm feedback when under sail more so after tuning the system somewhat by removing friction.

All good here
Cheers Frank

[2Wind]

Thanks for the reply, L4US.
Just clarifying, once the height the rod is set at the rudder arms so as to not rub on the life raft recepticle, does the guide sit horizonatal in the teflon "slot" or does it sit angled upwards, which is how mine would end up sitting when I do the adjustmentand effectively lower the rod.

Sorry to be pedantic!

Malcolm.

[Lagoon4us]

I'll get a picture for you soon.. Cheers