450: Lagoon 450 Modifications

[roetter]

Originally Posted by DavefromNZ

Thanks D&D. Yep the L450 uses a fair bit of power, I find usually between 10A and 25A and we would prefer not to have run the engine or generator if possible

On our new L450 I have installed 1800W solar, 6x300W et-solar panels, $270 each. Three panels each are connected to an Outback FX60. One set in series the other in parallel. I want to do some shading experiments later.

We have two Lagoon fridges, very poor insulation, and run a Dometic 100L box as a freezer at -15C. We have a spectra 400 water maker which we runabout 8 hours a week. Cappuccino maker, toaster, microwave, (all occasional daily use). We do about three full size wash loads a week with an LG washer.

I also installed 1400Ah LiFePo batteries. (Yes, I ripped out and by lick sold the brand new 840Ah LA batteries to a Lagoon 500 owner that had a lightning strike damage).

I have not had a need to run the engine ever. In January (short winter days even in the Bahamas) we had 10 days of next to no sun. At the end we were about 900Ah down on the battery, but recovered in the next 5 days to full. We stayed in the same spot for over 2 weeks, so no engine involved. At noon i see over 100 A coming in. That is almost 3-times what one alternator will produce even though they are 100A alternators on the new models.

Most days I "bleed" some extra power run the 110V water heater.

Just loving it and hating having to listen to the other boats running their genies and enjoying their complaining about all the maintenance and fixing they have to do on them.

[roetter]

Originally Posted by DavefromNZ

Thanks D&D. Yep the L450 uses a fair bit of power, I find usually between 10A and 25A and we would prefer not to have run the engine or generator if possible

Here are pictures of my 1800W solar installation.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by roetter

On our new L450 I have installed 1800W solar, 6x300W et-solar panels, $270 each. Three panels each are connected to an Outback FX60. One set in series the other in parallel. I want to do some shading experiments later.

We have two Lagoon fridges, very poor insulation, and run a Dometic 100L box as a freezer at -15C. We have a spectra 400 water maker which we runabout 8 hours a week. Cappuccino maker, toaster, microwave, (all occasional daily use). We do about three full size wash loads a week with an LG washer.

I also installed 1400Ah LiFePo batteries. (Yes, I ripped out and by lick sold the brand new 840Ah LA batteries to a Lagoon 500 owner that had a lightning strike damage).

I have not had a need to run the engine ever. In January (short winter days even in the Bahamas) we had 10 days of next to no sun. At the end we were about 900Ah down on the battery, but recovered in the next 5 days to full. We stayed in the same spot for over 2 weeks, so no engine involved. At noon i see over 100 A coming in. That is almost 3-times what one alternator will produce even though they are 100A alternators on the new models.

Most days I "bleed" some extra power run the 110V water heater.

Just loving it and hating having to listen to the other boats running their genies and enjoying their complaining about all the maintenance and fixing they have to do on them.

Wow...that is a seriously impressive (and, more importantly, effective!) setup. Well done indeed...

We feel humbled with our very modest 654W (2 x 327) solar panels...and much as we don't carry anywhere near the same demand items (no water maker, cappuccino maker, microwave, washing machine) the fact that you do AND still don't require diesel power, well done to you!

We're particularly curious, however, about your batteries. Where did you find them? Did they fit into the same space as the (presumably factory-installed?) 840Ah LA batteries? Dare we ask...what did they cost?!? 1400Ah would certainly add a lot of capacity to handle overcast days.

[monte]

Nice work Rolf. Can you tell us who did the installations? Uchimata? Wondering if a spectra is Available in La Rochelle..

[roetter]

Originally Posted by D&D

?... We're particularly curious, however, about your batteries. Where did you find them? Did they fit into the same space as the (presumably factory-installed?) 840Ah LA batteries? Dare we ask...what did they cost?!? 1400Ah would certainly add a lot of capacity to handle overcast days.

No diesel power was my objective. We "Survived" 10 gray days in January.

I got the LiFePo batteries from Balqon. I have not checked with them lately, but from what I read on the CF they are in financial trouble and have not answered to requests from CF members. I will install a LiFePo system on another L450 in March and have to get going sourcing those batteries. I installed 8x700Ah cells in 2P4S configuration. The cost for the cells and bus bars and shipping was about $4500. This was a special at $540 a 700Ah cell. Other sources charge about $4.40-$5.00 per Ah at 12V. So 400Ah about $2000.

I paid Much less than a generator would cost. Even with the solar I am not at the cost of a generator yet and much lighter. The bows sit really high in the water. With less daily draw a 700-800 Ah bank would be more than good. The sag is next to nothing under high loads. The other day I switched on the water heater drawing a total of 120A and the voltage dropped .08V.

Just now I am sitting at anchor with the fridges and the like drawing 15A. The water maker is running making 18+ G/h and I still have 52A going into the batteries.

[roetter]

Originally Posted by monte

Nice work Rolf. Can you tell us who did the installations? Uchimata? Wondering if a spectra is Available in La Rochelle..

I did the installation myself. Most boat installers shy away from this stuff, as it requires some new thinking.

For example, LA has to be charged to 100% at least once a month or you loose a lot in capacity and life. LiFePo does not mind hanging around at 50% for months, even years.

I will post a more detailed version on the "LiFePo for those using them as house banks" thread here on CF.

[monte]

Thanks Rolf, What about the watermaker/ Did you install that yourself as well?

[roetter]

Originally Posted by monte

Thanks Rolf, What about the watermaker/ Did you install that yourself as well?

No. I had J.T. (Telllie ) order and Halden install it for me. Excellent work, excellent advice. Nice guy too. I could have done it, but no time and J.T. definitely does it better than I would. With the batteries and solar I am not so sure if I could have found someone that does it as well as I did.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by roetter

I did the installation myself. Most boat installers shy away from this stuff, as it requires some new thinking.

...and, at least in our case, considerably more knowledge/experience. For example, we often don't even follow or understand your own abbreviations/acronyms, like "2P4S"...and that becomes even more of a threshold barrier amoungst the chatter in more technical threads. We accept that our limitations are perhaps greater than most readers, but our underlying needs are very similar!

Originally Posted by roetter

For example, LA has to be charged to 100% at least once a month or you loose a lot in capacity and life. LiFePo does not mind hanging around at 50% for months, even years.

I will post a more detailed version on the "LiFePo for those using them as house banks" thread here on CF.

We'll look forward to that more detailed version...and if we can prevail upon you to please keep in mind some (at least one!) of your readers are WAY below your level of technical knowledge, we will be very grateful indeed!

[roetter]

Sorry about the abbreviations. 2P4S.

2P- This means that I took two cells and connected them in parallel. Did that to all of them. So now I have four double cells, each giving about 3.33V at rest.

4S - I took this four pairs and connected them in series giving me about 13.3V at rest

Now I have 2P4S.
A standard battery would be 4S2P. That is not as good as now you have 8 individual cells that can be drifting apart in voltage.


This is much, much better then the usual on lead acid. Each battery is 6S. Six 2.1V cells in series to make about 12.6V. Then these are connected in parallel to create a large capacity bank.

Now each cell is on their own. If you have one weak one ( maybe after sulfation) it will be all the time under and overcharged, which will damage it even more.

Doing what I have done a weak cell mac be haloed by a strong cell. I can also monitor each cell-pack individually, which is what I doe. I already know that when charging near full that cell-pack 4 is always low and cell-pack 2 is always high. Mind you, the difference is only 0.01V. Should it get more, I can switch one cell each between pack 2 and pack 4.

[Emerald Sea]

Roetter , D&D,

My L450-304 arrived last week and now trying to work through how and where to route the solar modular wiring and place the MPPT controller. Similar to your retrofit, it will be installed slightly above the aft cockpit roof thus offering a bit more sun and rain protection. Benefitting from your experience, where and how did you run your cables? And where did you mount your MPPT (should I be concerned about RF?) and did you wire into the 12V battery bus bar, direct or elsewhere?

I spent some time looking at wire routing yesterday on the boat and seems it would be quite a job for cable routing.

Any assistance is appreciated, thanks

Steve
Emerald Sea

[roetter]

My solar panel supports go to the railing next to the dinghy. I ran the cable down there along the outboard support of the railing, around the aft of the floor and through a cable penetration into the upper engine room area. From there forward to thbulhead to the stbd aft cabin and down to the existing penetration under the bed next to the fuel tank. I pulled all the foam out between the existing cables and had enough for the 4 solar cables, plus 2 thick 2/0 cables for the inverter. From there it is a direct route to the space behind the batteries. I do not have air condition so it is empty. Even with air con it should fit there.
Sorry I have no better picture.


I installed LiFePo and with that changed the battery hook up quite a bit. I installed 3 bus bars:
1- negative bar, there are so many new connections that I did not want to add them tothe negative post on the main battery switch
2- load bar, all loads are connected here. A solenoid can disconnect this bar if voltage drop below set limit
3- charge bar, all chargers except inverter/charger are connected here, a solenoid disconnects this if voltage exceeds set limit.

[roetter]

Forgot to say - congratulations on your new boat.

The cable wiring is not complicated nor does it required a lot of work.

[roetter]

Here is the support at the cockpit pillars. I can send you the CAD drawing for it if you like. I would make the support about 100mm longer now to move cross beam to exactly under the mounting holes in the solar panels. I had to drill new holes and more load is now on the aft beam than on the forward beam as they are not symmetrically under the panels. I had to guess the fit as I had this manufactured before I got the boat.

[Emerald Sea]

Rolf,
Thanks. I'll be back on the boat tomorrow (as every day) and will examine a cable route similar as you have done. I have plenty glands for the penetrations.

Where did you mount your MPPT? I'll guess and say where the aircon locker was. If you have it under the bed, does it humm?

Thanks for the offer for your CAD dwgs however Ive got a set myself (for mounting 3x 327W modules). Ive attached these for info. There are a few amendments to these dwgs i.e. the Al frame has now become 316L angle simply as the fabricator didn't have any Al welders. Again, thanks

PS: The L450 is GREAT!