440: lagoon 440 repair- big hole in hull

[Mr B]

My boat had both hulls totally cut out and replaced, Brand New, 2/3 of the total length of the boat,
Its also been beefed up a lot more than the original hulls were designed for,,
My Specs for what I wanted it to do,


The first repairer was very shonky and all his work was totally cut out and scrapped,
My boat was half submerged and sitting on rocks grinding the bottom out of it for a week,
Then it was dropped off the supports and damaged further while being Salvaged,,
It was dropped about four feet off the supports,

I bought it back from the Insurers for a pittance, who wrote it off, $15,000-00
It had Approx $25,000-00 of mast and sails sitting upright on it ready to sail,

The insurers wrote it off as the people who submitted the repair costs wanted a cheap boat and the repair costs were astronomical, Almost the same as the boat was insured for,
After getting prices for repairs, Trucking it 700 miles from where it was located,
Dry storage, New electrics, Etc Etc Etc, Realistic Pricing, I bought it back,
It was my one and only bid on it, They accepted my offer, I know they did have other offers to buy the boat,

I could have it back in the water for half the price I paid originally for it, In Fiji,
Which is also half the price of what it is worth in Australia,
So I havent lost money, I actually will make a profit from it when I do sell it,
All the repairs now were professionally done, and can be insured with out problems,
Its all survey Standard,

The motor was repaired and was running after it was salvaged at the Marina,
I turned it over last week with a shifter and it is not seized after sitting for 6 years,
All my electrics will be replaced as they got squashed as the floor got smashed on the rocks,
100 metre rolls in the various sizes is a very cheap replacement for them all,
Old wire comes out, New wire goes in, I will do this, As It takes a lot of time,
Electrician will just hook the new wires up and make sure it all works,

All electrics that were submerged will and have been replaced, Its just not worth the effort of cleaning them and hoping they will work,
New electrical parts are not that expensive these days any way,
Ebay.com is your friend, Every thing comes out of china any way,
Buy it from the actual manufacturer,

Doing the wiring myself, I have found why my wind instruments didnt work, They have been fried by a Lightning strike, But the wiring was deep inside the cabinets and not found easily,

Submerged Fibreglass boats are not damaged by immersion in salt water,
The timber inside has been dried out and painted with clear Estapol,
It looks brand new again,

Fibreglass is very resilient, It takes a big hit and the damage does not travel to other parts, Its very localised to where it has been damaged,

With yours, Dont try to repair it, Cut the damaged part out and replace it with a brand new section, It will be cheaper in the long run,
As for being stronger in that section than the rest of the boat and causing problems structurally,
Is a Furphy,
Are your engines full of salt water, If Not, They are more than likely OK, Change the oil and diesel and make sure they turn over freely before starting them,
Full of salt water, You may need new engines if they have been full of water for a long time,

Get a price on Fully restoring the broken section from a professional fibreglass boat builder,
Not a fly by nighter lurking around the boat yard,

Hope this helps,
Cheers, Brian,

[rom]

Great post by Mr B. There is not much I can bring in except my sincere support and I hope Florentin will keep us posted ! The L440 is a great boat I hope he will bring this one back on water !

Now, knowing it is balsa cored deck & above WL, monolithic GRP below WL, what's the best way to repair ? having a mold made for that occasion, separate infusion, then assembly may be a bit costly ?

[Jim Cate]

I dunno if this is similar, but I was acquainted with a Bennie Oceanus that T-boned a steel prawn trawler doing around 6 knots. The bow was pretty well trashed and the mast came down when the forestay attachment came off. Boat was insured, and the repairs contracted out to pro repairers. The fix was having Beneteau lay up a new bow section from scratch and shipping it to Oz, where it was simply grafted onto the hull. /when done, the repair was invisible, but who knows about its strength compared to original... could even be stronger I suppose.

But that was a single skin hull, and I'm wondering how one goes about scarfing on with a cored hull? Perhaps it's easier... I wonder if any of our resident pros would comment on that aspect, please!

Jim

[florentin]

Originally Posted by Mr B

My boat had both hulls totally cut out and replaced, Brand New, 2/3 of the total length of the boat,
Its also been beefed up a lot more than the original hulls were designed for,,
My Specs for what I wanted it to do,


The first repairer was very shonky and all his work was totally cut out and scrapped,
My boat was half submerged and sitting on rocks grinding the bottom out of it for a week,
Then it was dropped off the supports and damaged further while being Salvaged,,
It was dropped about four feet off the supports,

I bought it back from the Insurers for a pittance, who wrote it off, $15,000-00
It had Approx $25,000-00 of mast and sails sitting upright on it ready to sail,

The insurers wrote it off as the people who submitted the repair costs wanted a cheap boat and the repair costs were astronomical, Almost the same as the boat was insured for,
After getting prices for repairs, Trucking it 700 miles from where it was located,
Dry storage, New electrics, Etc Etc Etc, Realistic Pricing, I bought it back,
It was my one and only bid on it, They accepted my offer, I know they did have other offers to buy the boat,

I could have it back in the water for half the price I paid originally for it, In Fiji,
Which is also half the price of what it is worth in Australia,
So I havent lost money, I actually will make a profit from it when I do sell it,
All the repairs now were professionally done, and can be insured with out problems,
Its all survey Standard,

The motor was repaired and was running after it was salvaged at the Marina,
I turned it over last week with a shifter and it is not seized after sitting for 6 years,
All my electrics will be replaced as they got squashed as the floor got smashed on the rocks,
100 metre rolls in the various sizes is a very cheap replacement for them all,
Old wire comes out, New wire goes in, I will do this, As It takes a lot of time,
Electrician will just hook the new wires up and make sure it all works,

All electrics that were submerged will and have been replaced, Its just not worth the effort of cleaning them and hoping they will work,
New electrical parts are not that expensive these days any way,
Ebay.com is your friend, Every thing comes out of china any way,
Buy it from the actual manufacturer,

Doing the wiring myself, I have found why my wind instruments didnt work, They have been fried by a Lightning strike, But the wiring was deep inside the cabinets and not found easily,

Submerged Fibreglass boats are not damaged by immersion in salt water,
The timber inside has been dried out and painted with clear Estapol,
It looks brand new again,

Fibreglass is very resilient, It takes a big hit and the damage does not travel to other parts, Its very localised to where it has been damaged,

With yours, Dont try to repair it, Cut the damaged part out and replace it with a brand new section, It will be cheaper in the long run,
As for being stronger in that section than the rest of the boat and causing problems structurally,
Is a Furphy,
Are your engines full of salt water, If Not, They are more than likely OK, Change the oil and diesel and make sure they turn over freely before starting them,
Full of salt water, You may need new engines if they have been full of water for a long time,

Get a price on Fully restoring the broken section from a professional fibreglass boat builder,
Not a fly by nighter lurking around the boat yard,

Hope this helps,
Cheers, Brian,

Hi, Brian,
it helps a lot, you are the living proof that it can be done ...thank you

[Mr B]

Lagoon 440 is around 300 grand to buy, 75 grand, Tops, should have it repaired fully by a professional boat builder,

The damage dont look all that bad from the piccys, The rear is still in line going by the plimsol line, So the rear hasnt dropped, Its still structurally sound,
Your basically looking at a skin being replaced, and some of the hull under it,
It looks worse than it is,
The timber inside looks straight, Most of it is bolt in cupboards or trim, , Easily replaced,

I would say you have got your self a cheap boat,
What hit it,

Cheers, Brian,

[Mr B]

FWIW, You can buy sheets of fibre glass in that size, and thickness,
So a lot of the work being said about getting moulds made for it, is non existant,
The main work will be blending the new with the old, Which is not a great deal any way,

[ausaviator]

If I knew where that L44 was AND it isn't water damaged, I'd buy it in a heart-beat... of course it's repairable!

You should all hear yourselves being so negative!

If it was water damaged, I'd be looking further into how badly. There's an engine behind there somewhere that you'd hope was missed.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Tricolor

It's common practice to open the side of a "steel" build to change an engine, in my +30 years practice I have never seen this done to a GRP boat.

Different problem but still a big chunk of hull removed, fixed and replaced

Prospero

But you won't be doing this sort of work with people for $10 USD an hour, but you knew that.

[harvey hellman]

Here is your perfect fix, made by Lagoon too

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by florentin

Hi, Brian,
it helps a lot, you are the living proof that it can be done ...thank you

I don't recall anyone saying it could not be done at all, certainly I didn't. The point is, this is not a quick, cheap, easy fix.

Can it be done? Yes, of course, it absolutely can be done!!!!!

The question is can it be done by the OP. From the nature of his questions I infer he has little or no experience in any kind of project of this nature and is hoping to do this on the cheap. To complete this project will require a person of great persistence and skill AND significant funds beyond the original purchase price and I think the desire of all the naysayers is to make sure the OP understands what he is getting into.

Several have posted photos or links to successful repairs of a similar nature. I can go to any boatyard and post many more photos of projects like this that were started and left to molder.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I don't recall anyone saying it could not be done at all, certainly I didn't. The point is, this is not a quick, cheap, easy fix.



Can it be done? Yes, of course, it absolutely can be done!!!!!



The question is can it be done by the OP. From the nature of his questions I infer he has little or no experience in any kind of project of this nature and is hoping to do this on the cheap. To complete this project will require a person of great persistence and skill AND significant funds beyond the original purchase price and I think the desire of all the naysayers is to make sure the OP understands what he is getting into.



Several have posted photos or links to successful repairs of a similar nature. I can go to any boatyard and post many more photos of projects like this that were started and left to molder.

Even the anecdote supplied by Mr.B supports that the right labor must be found. He’s been stuck by what I would consider most $10 an hour labor to be like. What happened? He had to rip it all apart and go again.

Possible....yes.

Needs the right skill set? Without a doubt.

Likelihood of failure with “cheap” labor? Much higher than without.

[DerekKelsall]

I am surprised at the number of negative comments on GRP repairs.
The Lagoon balsa core does not help (why balsa I wonder - balsa should never be in any structure involving water and thin sandwich skins?), adding another factor to deal with, but all can be done and done in a reasonable time frame by the right boat builder. A couple of weeks would fill the hole and I will add, over bonding of the skins can always be designed to be stronger than the original.

I have experience of all boat materials but primarily my work for 50 years has been custom PVC foam, and poly fiberglass skins. Repairs, extending hulls, even cutting in two and adding extra length have all come my way over the years. Repair with Corecell or Divinycell with the same, I presume poly, resin as original. Fairing after will need skill to disguise the patch.

Happy boating.
Derek.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Even the anecdote supplied by Mr.B supports that the right labor must be found. He’s been stuck by what I would consider most $10 an hour labor to be like. What happened? He had to rip it all apart and go again.

Possible....yes.

Needs the right skill set? Without a doubt.

Likelihood of failure with “cheap” labor? Much higher than without.

My first repairer was a top priced professional, He came highly recommended,
He has a big workshop at the Marina, He was just Shonky and had no work ethic, Which I said to his face,

He is also Bankrupt and still trading,
I really dont know how he can still trade like he does, Under the circumstances,
I sued him and got the contract lifted so I could get the next repairer to finish my boat,
I even sent the Sherrif down to sieze any thing he owned to repay me the money he owed me, Under the courts direction, But he dont own anything,

He was no $10-00 an hour flunky, He charged top dollar, He cost me a lot of money,
My boat repairs were never done on the cheap,

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by florentin

It does not matter whether some say it s possible, and some say it s not; what counts is the value of the arguments on which opinions are built; I could do without the cheap talk...your presumptions are based on what?

regards,

You've received a lot of good advice and then proceeded to flip the script from your first question which clearly indicated minimal experience with this type of project to suddenly you knew guys and how to get the work done cheap. If you really knew what was involved, you wouldn't be here asking if it could be done.

My presumptions are based on the number of slowly rotting boats in the back of boat yards that I've seen and heard of with similar stories combined with similar threads on the forum where people start out asking newbie questions only to suddenly become experts when they don't get the answer they like.

As I said, it can be done and depending on the specifics it may even be a good deal. But the odds are not in your favor actually getting it done in a reasonable time frame on budget. If you prove us wrong, more power to you.

PS: The gemini example is a solid fiberglass hull. Much simpler to deal with.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Submerged Fibreglass boats are not damaged by immersion in salt water,
The timber inside has been dried out and painted with clear Estapol,
It looks brand new again,

Eh, a lot of the strength of a fiberglass boat is in the attachment of the hull to it's wooden structural bits. In my experience, even things as simple as a deck leak can cause those wooden parts to expand + contract causing separation from the fiberglass they were bonded to. Furthermore, dark little nooks and crannies can be very difficult to dry out and give rot a chance to set in.

Originally Posted by Mr B

Fibreglass is very resilient, It takes a big hit and the damage does not travel to other parts, Its very localised to where it has been damaged,

The strength of fiberglass comes from it's ability to transfer loads across a huge area. The difference between a panel of plastic and a panel of GRP is all that glass is in there transferring loads all over the place. So the idea that damage stays "very localized" seems unlikely.


(On the other hand, you are getting a much more up close and personal look at this sort of damage than I'd ever subject myself to, so you're opinion does carry some serious weight imho.)