420: Lagoon 420 Owners & Fans

[CatNewBee]

This was my source for the LiFeYPO4:
LiTrade Shop It seemed EV-Power has much better prices, - but I assume the LiTrade prices include already the German VAT of 19% - so they are almost identical. It's the law in Germany, than online prices in consumer accessible stores have to show the retail price including the VAT.
I have to figure out, what BMS is capable to handle the 24 cells. Probably one have to go bold with something like this: LiGoo FT11 BMS, I also found this one at EV-Power, BMS-2405, but it is way to weak for high-current applications (0.5A balancer current, maximum capacity 100Ah/cell).

Well, to keep the hybrid and pimp it up wit LiFeYPO4 even with a higher capacity has some charme - especially if you go directly for the whole charging system to 72V and use the inverter from 72V to 220V - also for the fridges / freezers / galley (induction + oven / micowave) and keep a small (100...200Ah) 12V LiFeYPO4 only for the navigation electronics and lights, re-charged from the 72V main batteries.

You would get also, as I read after some research, a decent charge from the propellers while sailing, but miss around 1kn in speed. The regeneration starts at 4.5kn (6A) to 9.6kn (36A) @ 72V, this sums up to re-charging between 430W...2.600W using the wind alone, if you add a decent solar array of some panels around 1.200W - 1.500W you probably will not need the generator at all or only in heavy weather, you would get enough energy even at anchor to run all gadgets on board and need then propane only for the BBQ. The total usable capacity with 130Ah cells is around 15kWh, so one day sailing with decent winds could re-charge the battery bank - or you stay one week anchoring in the sun for the same purpose.

It seems to be a good idea not to dismiss the hybrid too early. The only disadvantage so far is some speed you'll miss, especially in light winds due to lack of folding props or when the batteries are full.

Well, thank you again for pointing me in this direction. I definitive need to make some more research on the available 72V inverter devices in the range of 3kW...6kW.

My original idea was to have a conventional propulsion and replace the house batteries by 12V / 700Ah LiFeYPO4 (4 Cells) + 1.200W Solar + 2 x 3.000W 12V Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Chargers, getting rid of the propane in the galley (Induction cook top + microwave/convection oven), powering occasionally the water maker, washer/dryer, diving compressor and hot-water heater out of the lithiums + solar with a small 4kW emergency generator when at anchor for a longer period of time in bad weather. The starter batteries could be used in case of LiFeYPO4 failure as an emergency replacement for the navigation electronics / lights - re-charged by the alternator of one of the engines and the solar array.

I would have chosen the 2 Multiplus because they have a 120A charger each, so with a small 4kW emergency generator you can re-charge the bank in less then 3 hours and also have up to 220V / 10kW if needed by combining the power of the generator with the output of the 2 inverter using the power assist option for the heavy duty stuff if needed.

It would probably sum up in the end up to 12k€ investment too, depending on what is already available on board.

[Octopus]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

My original idea was to have a conventional propulsion and replace the house batteries by 12V / 700Ah LiFeYPO4 (4 Cells) + 1.200W Solar + 2 x 3.000W 12V Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Chargers, getting rid of the propane in the galley (Induction cook top + microwave/convection oven), powering occasionally the water maker, washer/dryer, diving compressor and hot-water heater out of the lithiums + solar with a small 4kW emergency generator when at anchor for a longer period of time in bad weather. The starter batteries could be used in case of LiFeYPO4 failure as an emergency replacement for the navigation electronics / lights - re-charged by the alternator of one of the engines and the solar array.

I would have chosen the 2 Multiplus because they have a 120A charger each, so with a small 4kW emergency generator you can re-charge the bank in less then 3 hours and also have up to 220V / 10kW if needed by combining the power of the generator with the output of the 2 inverter using the power assist option for the heavy duty stuff if needed.

It would probably sum up in the end up to 12k€ investment too, depending on what is already available on board.

Good idea to get rid of propane in the galley, propane is dangerous stuff. We have induction hob, electric oven and microwave. All 230VAC. We also have 230VAC watermaker, automatic washing machine, fridge and freezer - much better than 12VDC alternatives. (also 230VAC TV, vacuum cleaner, power tools and pressure washer)

If you are keeping the hybrid, installing PV panels and installing LiFeYPo4 batteries, you may want to consider replacing the ENAG 230VAC/72VDC chargers with modern inverter/charger with built in MPPT charge controller. Victron should be able to supply a 72V version of their Multi-plus inverter chargers.

If you are keeping the ENAG 120A 230VAC/72VDC chargers then you may need to get them reprogrammed to LiFeYPo4 charging characteristics (else they will trickle charge your batteries for last few hours, which is not necessary for LiFePo4 batteries).

For example, Foshan SC can supply a modern low frequency 72VDC/230VAC inverter chargers with built-in MPPT chargers. The SC-V 5KVA/4kw/72VDC/230VAC with parallel function for USD 299/unit (plus shipping at 168/unit plus import duty). I believe the toroid transformers make them more efficient and reliable.


https://scsolar.en.alibaba.com/produ...w_4kw_5kw.html

Chris

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Octopus

https://scsolar.en.alibaba.com/produ...w_4kw_5kw.html

Chris

Hi Chris, I am not sure what you exactly mean, however this one linked does not support 72V batteries:

[CatNewBee]

Hi there.

Do someone have an idea what the market value range is for a decent Lagoon 420 from 2007 / 2008 nowadays (3 Cabin / 4 Cabin)?

It seem s the asking prices have a lot of fantasy in there, what was the original price 2008 for this vessels? Does someone has an old price list handy?

[jbinbi]

Lagoons hold value really well, plus list prices usually go up 2-4% a year. So over 10 years, new 420 is probably 10-30% more today than 2007. I would bet a 2007 will sell for close to 75% of what the owner paid for it if it is in good shape. Maybe more. Just rough numbers.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Lagoons hold value really well, plus list prices usually go up 2-4% a year. So over 10 years, new 420 is probably 10-30% more today than 2007. I would bet a 2007 will sell for close to 75% of what the owner paid for it if it is in good shape. Maybe more. Just rough numbers.

Wow, not bad! So one loose only 2..3% per year of the value. Seems to be a good investment. But the maintenance cost would probably eat up the budget over time.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Wow, not bad! So one loose only 2..3% per year of the value. Seems to be a good investment. But the maintenance cost would probably eat up the budget over time.

Besides maintenance costs, let's not also forget to add other "ownership costs" such as interest or loss of investment interest, insurance costs and mooring/storage / marina costs.

Other, wiser, boat owners may also advise including such costs as divorce, alimony, drug/alcohol rehabilitation, etc.

[CatNewBee]

Well, I'm not talking about costs, but about the price / value on purchase / sale.

The TCO is a different beast...

[Lostriverj]

Need help with replacement hatch! Irma stole our hatch off our newly acquired 2009 Lagoon 420 Located in the BVI's. The Beneteau USA part number is 903377. It may take 12 weeks to deliver and this is to long. We are not at the boat's location and would like to arrive there with one in hand. It is located amidship over the head.

Any idea on a direct replacement or size? Thanks, the Crew of SV Bonanza.

[tuskie]

Looks like a standard Lewmar hatch.

Measure it to determine correct size/model and order/purchase from Defender or West Marine.

[Lostriverj]

That's the problem, measuring it a few thousand miles away. Can anyone drop me the measurement? Looks like Lewmar Size 10 Ocean Hatch - Flat Base
Cutout: 10-1/16" x 10-1/16", 1-9/16" Corner Radius

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by Lostriverj

That's the problem, measuring it a few thousand miles away. Can anyone drop me the measurement? Looks like Lewmar Size 10 Ocean Hatch - Flat Base
Cutout: 10-1/16" x 10-1/16", 1-9/16" Corner Radius

OK, perhaps if you specify the location of this hatch on your Lagoon 420, then the kind and cooperative L420 owners on this forum can tell you the size hatch that you need to buy?

[PaulinOz]

Originally Posted by tuskie

OK, perhaps if you specify the location of this hatch on your Lagoon 420, then the kind and cooperative L420 owners on this forum can tell you the size hatch that you need to buy?

"It is located amidship over the head." They did.

Tuskie put your reading glasses on.

[tuskie]

Sorry! ��

[AB808]

Yes it's a#10 size. There are three sizes on the 420
X6 10s theses are 3 each side mid boat, X5 60s one above each bow and three along the front deck. The remaining X6 are 44s, mounted above the showers bunks and in the cabin front. All the same low profile lewmar ocean low profile.
You might do better buying the whole hatch since you don't know how it came off. The hinges are likely damaged. The hinge replace for this one is the friction type.
Aloha
Mike