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Old 11-10-2012, 23:52   #16
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Re: 440 Sailing with Gib only and no main sail

Lagoon4us,

My initial thread was based on heavy weather off the wind sailing.

I am not looking to do any serious manoeuvring of my 440 under head sail alone, not without a lot of sea room. (Might give it a go now though)

There is also the question of trade wind sailing, which is more preferential with head sails for handling and to reduce any chafe on the main when sailing for days on end.

Nige.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:11   #17
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Re: 440 Sailing with Gib only and no main sail

I didn't think you were, i'm going to look at the difficulties of setting a stormsail up on a strop, maybe external halyard just below the radar scanner.....
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:42   #18
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Re: 440 Sailing with Gib only and no main sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angels of Rio View Post
Lagoon4us,

My initial thread was based on heavy weather off the wind sailing.

I am not looking to do any serious manoeuvring of my 440 under head sail alone, not without a lot of sea room. (Might give it a go now though)

There is also the question of trade wind sailing, which is more preferential with head sails for handling and to reduce any chafe on the main when sailing for days on end.

Nige.
I understand... I was referring to Lagoon likely covering their A##'s by making the statement mentioned.....
Kinda like: "Although your Ferrarri can go as fast as 200 mph, it can be unsafe at that speed, you should always obey the speed limit.."
I'm not discounting that rig stresses may be unsafe in certain conditions with jib only up either...although I've done it alot on a 42.
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Old 12-10-2012, 15:27   #19
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Re: 440 Sailing with Gib only and no main sail

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I understand... I was referring to Lagoon likely covering their A##'s by making the statement mentioned.....
Kinda like: "Although your Ferrarri can go as fast as 200 mph, it can be unsafe at that speed, you should always obey the speed limit.."
I'm not discounting that rig stresses may be unsafe in certain conditions with jib only up either...although I've done it alot on a 42.
"Although your Ferrarri can go as fast as 200 mph, it can be unsafe at that speed, you should always obey the speed limit.." I think that's a 'spot on' analogy unless the mast pumps or bends it'll stay put, although the section isn't overly huge for a heavy boat.
I'll sight the mast a lot and see what it's doing.
I guess also most of these go into charter hence the warning may be covering the 'dunce' component as well.. Cheers Frank
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Old 13-10-2012, 00:55   #20
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Yes, you can just furl the job in a squall. Maybe. I think as sailors gain experience is real weather conditions they become more wary of the problems of sailing under jib only.

From furling problems in a squall to inability to turn to weather for some navigation issue the jib only sailor is limiting her options. A puff to 35 or 50 knots will not be easy to furl. Releasing the sheet will endanger the rig and my cause other disasters. Then what? You have no useful sails up at all. Often to impossible to either tack or gybe. Reef ahead?

But the vendor may be aware that the rig is endangered in such loadings. Maybe the intermediate supports are insufficient for the possible loads.

Also a main is better at self-tending. A fully released jib will likely be fully powered up in a perfect pitch-pole condition. A main in most any trim will depower by itself in most situations.. Maybe the crew has been temporarily incapacitated or distracted by an emergency. Use the engine? Can the often small rudders on a cat turn a large flogging job to weather? Maybe.

I will sometimes sail job only. But only after considering the negative possibilities.
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Old 13-10-2012, 02:08   #21
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Re: 440 Sailing with Gib only and no main sail

Don't forget the KRAKEN.......... Why the scenarios? The question regards sailing a 440 with just a jib. We have all done it many times in fact i'm ordering twin 6.5 oz jibs to trade wind sail setting on the twin luff foil and furling on the same furler after tacking.

Trade wind sailing 24hrs x 'x' days you don't want to be playing with a main.
If in fact conditions require of course you will reef, our boat is head to wind in seconds to furl either jib or main (if thats what we are running at the time).

Cheers
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Old 13-10-2012, 03:12   #22
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Re: 440 Sailing with Gib only and no main sail

I sailed 440 extensively for five years as a charter captain including an Atlantic crossing (East to West) most of the crossing we did with the jib on one side and a janiker on the other side, the boat sailed fine in all weather conditions without the main. Further I sailed the 440 many times with just the jib on a beam reach in30Kn wind and again she handled well.
I have no idea why lagoon put this note in the manual, all other sail plans do make sense though.
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Old 13-10-2012, 05:02   #23
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Re: 440 Sailing with Gib only and no main sail

RE post # 10, how do you set up to furl both sails at once?

1 swivel with both sail headboards?, 2 swivels stacked on sails with 2 different luff lengths, and 2 halyards?

I'm trying to picture this setup.
I have sailed on a rig with 2 sail skins sharing 1 luff tape.
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Old 13-10-2012, 10:20   #24
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Re: 440 Sailing with Gib only and no main sail

The key is being prudent. As mentioned, you really dont want to unroll it in 35 knots of wind and just go. But if you want to have a liesurely 20 mile sail in 10-20 knots to the next anchorage... sure why not. If the wind starts to build, reef the sail a little as it builds! When you think about it... the pacific tradewinds rig touted by many old school sailors was two headsails wing and wing for days on end! Bottom line; use your head. try it in different conditions, look up the mast and see how it's bending in diff conditions....
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Old 13-10-2012, 14:36   #25
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Re: 440 Sailing with Gib only and no main sail

Good post exactly the idea....
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Old 13-10-2012, 14:39   #26
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Re: 440 Sailing with Gib only and no main sail

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RE post # 10, how do you set up to furl both sails at once?

1 swivel with both sail headboards?, 2 swivels stacked on sails with 2 different luff lengths, and 2 halyards?

I'm trying to picture this setup.
I have sailed on a rig with 2 sail skins sharing 1 luff tape.
1 swivel with both clews attached to it, Taskers are making the sails with this in mind the head will accomodate each other with regard to twist etc..... Cheers Frank
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Old 13-10-2012, 17:06   #27
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Re: 440 Sailing with Gib only and no main sail

Hi All:

We sailed many miles with all kinds of sail combinations. The only combination we never used was the double reef in the main and full jib. This is totally banned.

Crossing in the 2011 ARC we would often drop the main and use the jib and asymmetrical alone. We would drop the boom on the cabin top on a bumper and put the topping lift to the aft T-cleat if the breeze was up over 15 true. Not sure we needed to do this with the swept back spreaders but did all the same. We ran for days with the Doyle APC and Asymetrical up making a steady 10-12 knots. I will try to post a picture of this combination.

No problems reefing or shaking the reef in the main or jib ever! The main was up and down like a toilet seat at a mixed party! We never went head to wind. It took a careful eye and patience (wait till you surf down a wave to hoist) but worked well for us. Having said that, I never use the APC or Asym without the main higher than 140 degrees.
On one occasion we were running in the late evening with only the APC up, got a puff up to 23 true, the boat hit a wave and the APC blew apart like a used tissue. If I had the main up it may have taken some load and saved the APC. A real bummer for me. I loved the sail and cost $800.00 to repair.

We would inspect the rig daily. I went aloft every three days. Not recommended unless you have an athletic cup in your shorts! No issues with vibration, inappropriate load, warping or inverting. We did have a rigging inspector go over the boat before the ARC and with his recommendation, tightened the main shrouds about four full turns. No real slack in the leeward shrouds after that, which is better in my opinion. I hate it when they snap back and you feel the tug through the whole boat!

The preventer, boom stop, brake, what ever it is called, we always had a “preventer” our term, on the boom when the main was up. Always!!! Not concerned about the crew due to the booms height, we just never wanted the “unexpected gybe.”
Although it did happen to us, wind shift, transom pushed by a wave, slow reaction from the helmsmen and wham! Over it came and the boom attachment was toast. We were using the spare toggle hanging down under the boom at the time. Same ones that the main blocks are attached to. Lucky it just blew apart or it could have been worse. At the time we had the preventer tied to the middle T- cleat with a strong line. After this experience, we put a nylon strap to the same middle t-cleat with a snatch block and would run a line from the boom through it to the spin block then up to the jib winch. That way if it happened again we could get to the preventer line quickly and release it. Also easy to adjust from the safety of the flybridge. We also used a small line tied to the boom itself that the preventer line was attached to thinking it would break before shock loading the boom. Never had to try this so only an idea!!

Happy Sailing
Scott Elektra I
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Old 14-10-2012, 05:15   #28
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Re: 440 Sailing with Gib only and no main sail

Scott - any chance you can post some pics of that set up you described?
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Old 14-10-2012, 08:28   #29
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Re: 440 Sailing with Gib only and no main sail

I am back on board the 28th, hooray!!! I can rig the preventer and take a picture for you if that is what you want. No trouble at all!
I posted a picture of the APC and Asymetrical we had up in the ARC on this site. Should be a recent photo post. The APC is the light blue one. Much larger than the Asym. Both are on Facnor furlers so we would roll them up at night use the gib and one reef in the main then in the morning unfurl and go again! Great fun!!
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Old 14-10-2012, 11:07   #30
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Re: 440 Sailing with Gib only and no main sail

I've used a product called Shockles (SHOCKLES® - Simpy Brilliant products for Boats, Sailboats, Boating, Sailing, Home and Outdoors) with great success to quiet my boat and use in tandem with a preventer line when going down wind. I rig one on the lee shroud when it starts slapping in big winds.
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