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Old 01-03-2008, 12:43   #1
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Room for One Crew Member - Antigua to Azores in May '08

I have room for 1 crew member to sail from Antigua to the Azores, in May.

Vessel is a 20 year old Beneteau Idylle 11.5, a heavy displacement boat (11tns). She is a kindly seaboat, rigged for ocean sailing (windvane steering, SSB radio, Radar, etc etc etc and this will be our 6th Atlantic crossing together.

Crew need a good knowledge of the Collision Regulations by then plus the ability to sail to at least competent crew level. Willing, prepared to stand watch, share in cooking, boat maintenance etc and willing to share expenses.

For details of my experience, qualifications and a photo of the boat etc, see my website.

Brendan


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Old 01-03-2008, 13:32   #2
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Sounds a little unfair. You are doing a delivery , and getting paid? Then you want your help to pay also? hummmmmmmm
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Old 01-03-2008, 14:01   #3
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Sounds a little unfair. You are doing a delivery , and getting paid? Then you want your help to pay also? hummmmmmmm
I'd have to agree. Plus, you get what you pay for. Any competent crew in the delivery industry knows they aren't going to pay to be crew.

He's either got to find a real sucker (who won't know the first thing about boats and will be lousy crew), or at least offer a free ride.

It's sad to see people trying to take advantage of others in this industry. I suppose they will always try.

PS: This thread should be in the "crew wanted" section, not in the "Liveaboard Forum."
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Old 01-03-2008, 14:13   #4
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Captain Chandler is not hiding the fact that he is doing a delivery, and that he is looking for a student cruiser during the delivery. So why all the fuss ?
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Old 01-03-2008, 14:22   #5
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Captain Chandler is not hiding the fact that he is doing a delivery, and that he is looking for a student cruiser during the delivery. So why all the fuss ?
Because that's not how it works in the industry. He is supposed to pay his crew, not the other way around. Some of us who have worked in the industry don't like seeing newbies taken advantage of and like to point things like this out. Sorry... just my helpful nature.
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Old 01-03-2008, 14:32   #6
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Captain Chandler is not hiding the fact that he is doing a delivery, and that he is looking for a student cruiser during the delivery. So why all the fuss ?
Those facts are not stated in the ad. The ad reads as it's his boat and he's looking for help for a trans Atlantic.

I side with Sean. Don't ask people to pay to move your boat.
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Old 01-03-2008, 14:46   #7
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I side with Sean also.

Quote:
Tuition means instruction or teaching. In US English, the term tuition is often used to refer to a fee charged
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Old 02-03-2008, 08:58   #8
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Arrow Just for the record

I seem to have accidentally opened a can of worms or perhaps just tripped over an already open can?

My posting says that this will be “our 6th Atlantic crossing together” which I thought made it clear that she is my boat, 'Sleepy Shores'. Obviously not, so I apologise for that.

We are completing our third circuit of the North Atlantic together and I am looking for another crew member to share it.
If I go sailing with friends, I expect to contribute towards the boat's costs including fuel, marinas, food etc and am happy to do so.

I try to be open and honest in my dealings with people and tell them up-front exactly what I am looking for.

If this does not conform to some people's expectations of what “I am supposed” to do, then so be it. I can live with that.

Brendan
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:42   #9
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Now will follow the justifications and back-pedaling…

Delicious.
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:57   #10
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contribute towards the boat's costs including fuel, marinas

Brendan: Legally, what you write in the little snippet above makes your trip a charter. As a fellow licensed master of steam, motor and sail, I find it hard to imagine you are not aware of this.

You have indeed tripped over an already open can of worms. Several people have come on this site looking to lowball, charge, or otherwise take advantage of crew. Many crew are new and get taken advantage of. Since I've been in the business, I make sure to call out things that look fishy, with the hope of helping out the new guy.

Glad to see it's your own boat. That makes it less of an issue, since you aren't being paid to move it. However, it is a charter if your crew are paying for fuel and marinas. But I'm sure you're aware of that. It's also a charter if they pay "tuition", as any money changing hands from crew to owner amounts to a charter. Do you have insurance, coastwise endorsement, or equivalent from the UK?

I'm foggy on your charter laws vs. charter laws in the States. I only know the ones here. Doing charters here without insurance can result in the loss of your boat (financially) if a guest slips and falls or is otherwise injured during your charter.
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:26   #11
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Brendan: Legally, what you write in the little snippet above makes your trip a charter.
Thanks for the advice. I had better not go sailing with my friends again.

I wonder whether this US law, UK law or European Law?

I cannot see that it matters in the slightest to potential crew whether it is my boat or somebody else's boat. If I am honest open and declare what I offer and what I want in return. Adults are then able to decide for themselves whether this is what they want.

Some people might think that as you are in the business of Yacht Delivery you denegrate anybody else that you think may not be doing business in the way you think he should.
I quote your earlier posting "He is supposed to pay his crew". I assume that this is your decision and the rest of the world should rush to obey? Or is this wishful thinking on your part.

As a matter of interest and just for the record, I have never charged crew on a Delivery trip.

I see little point in continuing this discussion as every time I look at your last posting, it has been changed again.

Brendan
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Old 02-03-2008, 11:57   #12
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Thanks for the advice. I had better not go sailing with my friends again.

I wonder whether this US law, UK law or European Law?
I think it is called International Admiralty Law. Might want to check into it though, since you are, by the USCG definition, running a charter. You can check with the MCA, maybe?

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Some people might think that as you are in the business of Yacht Delivery you denegrate anybody else that you think may not be doing business in the way you think he should.
I quote your earlier posting "He is supposed to pay his crew". I assume that this is your decision and the rest of the world should rush to obey? Or is this wishful thinking on your part.

As a matter of interest and just for the record, I have never charged crew on a Delivery trip.

Brendan

Brendan, if you have any experience in the industry, you know darn well that you should pay a crew that is working for you on a delivery. How many repeat crews do you have with the policy of making them pay you??

This is not "wishful thinking", but it is the way things are done, internationally, at sea. Just because you are too cheap or looking to exploit crew doesn't mean it's "wishful thinking." It means you are running a charter if you charge them and they have every right under IMO/MCA/USCG law if you do so.

So as a matter of record, you never charged anyone on a delivery trip? Good for you. You just kept them working there for you for free then, I assume?? I think all of our countries used to have people working in them for free. My country put an end to that during our Civil War. I think in 1833, your country did the same. Seems times have not caught up with you and your boat.
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Old 02-03-2008, 12:16   #13
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at the least on a paid delivery. The volunteer crew should have their provisions paid for.
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Old 02-03-2008, 13:20   #14
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Brendan, I'm sure you will recieve quite a few responses for crew here as everytime one of these types of posts appear; so do these same 'delivery' guys claiming what a terrible deal it is, and each time, the original poster returns to say, 'Thanks, I've found someone for the passage'.
I wonder why they are compelled to respond to a forthright query that has no interest to them.
You are offering a wonderful opportunity to someone looking for some bluewater time in an intimate and fair situation. There are many happy connections made everyday this way in Antigua this time of year in particular, as I'm sure you know by the chock full bulletin board in English Harbour. Many young people fly down searching for just this kind of adventure. The same is true of the Baja and crew parties are held to introduce potential crew to boat owners under these same conditions.
I'm a singlehander, but I've taken crew in just this fashion before and it went very well; frankly, I wouldn't want to sail with a pro, its more fun to sail with a friend.
Not everyone regards passagemaking as a business venture or 'hard work' that requires renumeration other than a collection of fantastic memories.
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Old 02-03-2008, 15:44   #15
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Thank you 'little boat' for your contribution.

You expressed my feelings very well. Thank you.

One of the guys sailing to the Azores in May first sailed with me about 10 years ago in response to a similar advertisment. In fact, I met many of my current sailing friends in a similar way and almost all have sailed with me many times.

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