Orana 44: Planning Speed for an Orana 44 Under Power

[capcook]

Hello Orana owners...

Was wondering what a good planning speed would be for the Orana under just power... For the trip I am planning (great loop) I am going to have to leave the mast in Florida... I was thinking 10kts but perhaps that is too optimistic ???

Thanks

[TaoJones]

Do you intend to motor with both engines, or alternate them? Is fuel consumption a consideration? Are you trying to complete the Great Loop within a certain period of time?

I think these questions need to be factored in if you're trying to calculate the speed you will need to average, capcook, but if you're just wanting a number for top motoring speed, single engine, and top motoring speed, both engines, you can figure that out yourself with the help of your GPS, or it may well be in your vessel's specs already.

TaoJones

[capcook]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

Do you intend to motor with both engines, or alternate them? Is fuel consumption a consideration? Are you trying to complete the Great Loop within a certain period of time?

I think these questions need to be factored in if you're trying to calculate the speed you will need to average, capcook, but if you're just wanting a number for top motoring speed, single engine, and top motoring speed, both engines, you can figure that out yourself with the help of your GPS, or it may well be in your vessel's specs already.

TaoJones

Ah, there in lies the problem, I don't have the Orana 44 just yet... this is "arm chair" planning at the moment... you did bring up some good points, I assumed I would need to use both engines but if the yawl is not to bad (and hard on the rudder/auto pilot) and I could make close to 10kts with just one engine (assume the 40hp version)...than that would be the best choice... nevertheless, I am just trying to figure out what is possible given my window of opportunity.... Thanks

[YOGAO]

For arm chair planning, I would figure on 7 knots with one engine. There should be no worries about the "yaw" and/or strain on the rudder using one engine. 10 knots would be close to the max running two engines.

Yes, the boat will be lighter w/o the mast, but with a "light" displacement of nearly 10T you still have a lot of mass to push. Add in currents, no wake zones (6 knots) and other areas where you may be forced to slow down (locks, bridge openings, narrow canals) and you will quickly be in the 6 - 7 knot range.

[capcook]

Originally Posted by YOGAO

For arm chair planning, I would figure on 7 knots with one engine. There should be no worries about the "yaw" and/or strain on the rudder using one engine. 10 knots would be close to the max running two engines.

Yes, the boat will be lighter w/o the mast, but with a "light" displacement of nearly 10T you still have a lot of mass to push. Add in currents, no wake zones (6 knots) and other areas where you may be forced to slow down (locks, bridge openings, narrow canals) and you will quickly be in the 6 - 7 knot range.

Thanks... that's what I was afraid of ... I don't want to run at night, at least not until this crew gets a whole lot more sea miles under their belt... so day hops up the coast from NYC to Quebic then back thru Erie and Hudson... so I suppose going up I could count on a bit more speed, but I think you are spot on once I enter the canal/river system...

Cheers

[jglauds]

I have an Orana 44, with the Volvo D1-30 engines ... not sure whether you have the 40hp version.

On calm seas, with no wind, I can do 5 knots at 2000 rpm on one engine. I can do about 7 knots at 2000 rpm on both engines. Fuel consumption goes up dramatically as you increase rpms, of course. I think cruising max is about 2800 rpm but I never run above about 2400.

In seas, expect slower seas of course, as with head winds; there's a fair bit of windage on these cats.

we've had our Orana for 2.5 years, purchased in France, sailed to Annapolis, and we are now in Cairns, Australia.

On the engine note, please check with your Volvo dealer (unless you have Yanmar) about a recent bulletin indicating that the transmission oil should be 15W40, and NOT ATF.

Good luck!

/jon

[YOGAO]

...the mast in Florida?

The majority of the trip could be sailed, right?

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by capcook

Thanks... that's what I was afraid of ... I don't want to run at night, at least not until this crew gets a whole lot more sea miles under their belt... so day hops up the coast from NYC to Quebic then back thru Erie and Hudson... so I suppose going up I could count on a bit more speed, but I think you are spot on once I enter the canal/river system...

Cheers

What you've described, capcook, isn't what most would consider The Great Loop, though it would be an interesting trip, as well. And as Mike has pointed out, most of the trip you've outlined could be sailed.

I'll attach a map of The Great Loop with both options (Mississippi or Tennessee-Tombigbee) indicated. That route makes the idea of leaving the mast in Florida somewhat more understandable.

TaoJones

[yeloya]

I have an Orana with 40 HP Volvo's. 10 knots is not even a dream.. Clean buttom, calm seas, no swell, you will be making 6-6,2 knots with one engine at around 2.200 rpm. Higher rpm doesn't help much..
Two engines same rpm, you can see around 8 knts, 8,3 max. Different props can change a bir the picture but 10 knts is impossible, unless you get the current and or wind/swell with you.
Yr consumption per hour will be around 9-10 liters per hour.
Remember, these boats are not made to motor but to sail.

Cheers

Yeloya

[capcook]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

What you've described, capcook, isn't what most would consider The Great Loop, though it would be an interesting trip, as well. And as Mike has pointed out, most of the trip you've outlined could be sailed.

TaoJones

Yes, indeed you are correct.. I have also laid out the GL/Mississippi River route too... It does pain me that most of what we want to do is "sailable" but to do that I would have to carry a 60+' mast on the boat through the Erie canal (or down the river systems on the west route) which may not even be fesaible, but something I don't want to do... so the alternatives is to either double back on our same route up or leave the mast in Florida where we will end up... the later seems to make sense.

The wife has a real interest in seeing the Quebic / Montreal areas, this is the carrot to get her on board, but she can't leave until July 1, so the boat will need to be positioned closer e.g. NYC... then we motor up the coast with the aim of getting to Quebic City by early August then down to Montreal, thru 1000 Isls, over to Tronto then back down via the Erie Canal. Since they will not have motored up to NYC all the trip south will be new to them... My goals is for them to get their sea legs in a hopefully easy trip, if the seas are too rough along the coast we just stay put for until they are better...

So that is the current plan... subject to change...

Thanks all for the great input...

Cheers

[TaoJones]

On that "Quebec Loop" (for lack of a more-suitable name), have you given any thought to sailing up as far as Albany / Troy and having your mast removed there. Then, after you complete the loop and return via the Erie Canal to the Hudson, have the mast stepped and sail back to Florida.

I don't know how many you'll have aboard during your trip to and through Quebec and the necessary canal transits, capcook, but if it's just a few then handling such a large vessel through the locks could be a real challenge. Another option might be to sail the Orana to Albany, charter something more suited to the canals for the loop through Quebec and back to Albany, then re-board the Orana for the trip back to Florida. That would eliminate the necessity for all that mast-handling.

TaoJones

[muskoka]

You can check the engine manufacturers web sites for fuel consumption graphs. We have Yanmars and at 2300 rpm they'll push her through the water at about 6+ knots using about 4 litres per hour (2 x 2 litters). If I run on one engine at those rpm's we make about 5 knots.

To push the engines to 3200 rpm will move us at 8 knots but it triples the fuel consumption as well as being rather noisy. To get 9.5+ knots we have to open the engines wide up. Quite frankly, it ain't that pleasant.

I suspect the Orana will be similar in terms of speed but thirstier. We basically plan on consistently managing 6 knots average over a 24 hour period.

[capcook]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

On that "Quebec Loop" (for lack of a more-suitable name), have you given any thought to sailing up as far as Albany / Troy and having your mast removed there. Then, after you complete the loop and return via the Erie Canal to the Hudson, have the mast stepped and sail back to Florida.
TaoJones

That is a really great idea and I had not really thought about doing it that way... it is too bad I could not head north up to Quebec from Troy... apparently there is no way to avoid the Chambly Canal where the narrowest lock is only 21ft (an Orana has a beam of 24ft)... this would have made a great trip up that way and back through Erie... still your idea has a lot of merit... do you have any idea that a yard would charge to remove, store and replace the mast ? I bet US$3k eh ?

As for getting through the locks, was thinking I would error on the side of having too many bumpers... maybe eight on a side... but my "crew" would not be well "seasoned" so largely up to me...

Thanks

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by capcook

That is a really great idea and I had not really thought about doing it that way... it is too bad I could not head north up to Quebec from Troy... apparently there is no way to avoid the Chambly Canal where the narrowest lock is only 21ft (an Orana has a beam of 24ft)... this would have made a great trip up that way and back through Erie... still your idea has a lot of merit... do you have any idea that a yard would charge to remove, store and replace the mast ? I bet US$3k eh ?

As for getting through the locks, was thinking I would error on the side of having too many bumpers... maybe eight on a side... but my "crew" would not be well "seasoned" so largely up to me...

Thanks

I'm not sure about the charges related to taking care of the mast for you, but there are certainly yards there who do it all the time. Someone will probably read this thread and chime in with up-to-the-minute rates.

I think you're going to find that locking through is more about line handling than dropping fenders over the side and staying off the (filthy, disgusting) walls, though that's important, too. You won't want to invest in nice, new fenders for the locks - you'll just want to throw them away when they get all mucked-up anyway. Instead, think expendable old tires and 2x6s.

I don't mean to pre-judge your capabilities, but if you're pretty much on your own tending the vessel through the locks, I suspect you could be over-matched trying to control a large Orana while locking through. I think you're going to need at least one other strong individual to help you. On a vessel that size, another capable couple along for the canal portion, at least, would hardly cramp your space, I should think.

There used to be some great accounts online of the delivery of PDQ power cats each spring from Whitby, Ontario across Lake Erie, into the canal at Oswego, New York to the Erie Canal, then to the Hudson and on south from there. If you can find some of that material, it'll give you a solid feel for what the canal portion will be like.

TaoJones

[YOGAO]

Invest in buying some big black trash bags, double bag each fender, toss the bags as needed.