Hunter 356 Bluewater Capable?

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

Well…..

As I recall (from reading a long time ago) Fletcher Christian selected Pitcairn not only for its remoteness (it is considered one of the world's most remote islands) but also because it had such unfavorable landing conditions (no natural harbor) as that would make it unlikely that any British warship would want to land men there (e.g. to get provisions or get water etc.) as they would pass this island and go to other more suitable islands.

This is not to say that boats don't visit it and that boats don't anchor off the landing area, some do. But, it is known to be hazardous, and is not a harbor. It is simply a place where the small boats can be landed or launched, as the island has mostly steep sides (rocky coast).



Rodeo clowns would probably be offended if described as being like some internet clowns.

You folks will not know this already, but I am writing a book about Rodeo and have spent many nights at rodeos (another of my photography book projects) that gave me opportunities for close observance (backstage view so to speak) to the professional rodeo clowns and what they do. I have spoken with a number of them and generally find they do dress and do things in a foolish fashion (for entertainment) but I would not consider them idiots. The ones I met were generally funny, and courageous (as called for by their job) and often risked themselves to help a rodeo rider who was in distress. Some did what I consider "heroic" saves of other men who were getting stomped and gored by bucking bulls that tossed them (the clowns) like rag dolls. As we say in Texas, "They have COJONES!" So, I have a lot of respect for true, professional, rodeo clowns. By the way, many of the current ones prefer to be called "bull fighters" even if some still wear some clown makeup or minimal makeup. I prefer the "old school" clown outfits. I wish I could show you folks some of my photos, but I have most reserved for books and cannot put them online.

As a fellow Texan, agreed. But I don't think Keno or Exile knew the difference in the ad. I just didn't want to offend them.

So, why don't we switch to "not even a Birthday Clown would put himself into a situation that's that dangerous".

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by RTB

One for smack- We were anchored off Redfish Island in Galveston Bay, the night before the Harvest Moon Regatta. I was on anchor watch, and the sun had set. It is not too far from the ship channel. A huge ship was making it's way south, and as it neared the island, the boat swings about 90* (because that big ship is sucking water toward it). I'm wondering what the hell is going on? A minute or two later, 3 or 4' waves (wakes from the ship) slammed us on the beam. That got everyone up on deck pretty quick! Ok, the sailor screwed up anchoring where we did. Haha, I wasn't captain, but did learn from the experience.

Anyway...there should be a video called "the wild world of anchoring".

Absolutely. I know exactly what you mean. As a matter of fact, a little ways down the bay and you get some really good surfing from these tanker wakes/waves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAZu9CWEVbQ

Those will absolutely send your cushions flying if one is Birthday Clownish enough to anchor there.

Originally Posted by RTB

PS- put some Velcro on the bottom of your cushions in the saloon. I have had cockpit cushions thrown onto the floor on several rolly anchorages. I've also felt weightless trying to sleep in the V-Berth, as the boat falls off waves while anchored on the Great Bahama Bank during thunderstorms. Two nights in a row.

I don't doubt that at all. Good advice.

[smj]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

I totally agree with that. At the same time, only a rodeo clown would put himself into a situation that's that dangerous.

Now, I'm still waiting for all the others who have also been in "secure anchorages" and, like Keno, had their cushions, stuff, and people flying all over the cabin while the boat was coming apart to come into the thread and validate that claim.

I'm patient - and very intrigued.

Our first catamaran, a Catfisher 32 would roll violently if hit by a beam sea or beam wake. So yes, we have been on a boat in a secure anchorage and had stuff flying across the boat caused by a large wake. Very un catamaran like!


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[Steadman Uhlich]

Howdy Again Polux,

Thanks for posting those links and prices. I found it interesting to see the 50 footers and their prices for these new boats. As those major competitors are in tight competition for a segment of the boating market, I did expect them each to have some boat comparably priced (offered to a price point).

This makes me think of another topic, which I will post later.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by RTB

Kenomac, where were you anchored? I can see what you are saying, if it's a very large bay, or open water.
Ralph

"I totally agree with that. At the same time, only a rodeo clown would put himself into a situation that's that dangerous.

Now, I'm still waiting for all the others who have also been in "secure anchorages" and, like Keno, had their cushions, stuff, and people flying all over the cabin while the boat was coming apart to come into the thread and validate that claim.

I'm patient - and very intrigued." Smackdaddy

Here's the answer to both questions:


We've anchored in the conditions described many times, never by choice, sometimes there's nowhere else to go, or..... conditions change.

One time when the seat cushions and people were violently being thrown about was on the eastern (sheltered) side of Catalina Island, CA off Emerald Bay in our Hunter 450. It was a very calm night except for the 3ft swell rolling into the bay from the north east, almost glassy. Then the light 5mph wind changed and began coming from a more north westerly direction, placing us parallel to the swells. My sister and brother in law still talk about how miserable it was that night. The high freeboard on the Hunter greatly exaggerated/accelerated the rolling motion.

Regarding the rodeo clown video.... I can't believe the video needs an explanation. I (and holiday Inn) was trying to make light of someone with little to no actual real world experience, offering expert advice based solely on internet or book knowledge, or in the case of the Holiday Inn, knowledge obtained simply by having stayed at the hotel.

No offense intended towards rodeo clowns. I can't believe I need to explain this so as not to offend a rodeo clown who might be reading this.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

Howdy Again Polux,

Thanks for posting those links and prices. I found it interesting to see the 50 footers and their prices for these new boats. As those major competitors are in tight competition for a segment of the boating market, I did expect them each to have some boat comparably priced (offered to a price point).

This makes me think of another topic, which I will post later.

Don't believe those prices. A normally equipped boat will cost a lot more and it is completely useless to compare the price of basic boats since nobody is going to buy boats on that condition. Those prices can give you an idea but the only way to compare boat prices is to make a complete list of equipment that one considers indispensable and ask how much different boats will cost with the same equipment and then some funny things can happen:

A friend of mine interested in a boat with a lot of equipment made that list and asked about the Oceanis 38 and Dehler 38 price...and with similar equipment the Dehler was just a bit less expensive (that was in Europe). The basic price of Dehler is considerably higher than the one from the Oceanis.

Yacht.de, one of the best European boat magazines, not to have people fouled with that kind of stuff, when they test a boat they give the basic price and the price with a list of equipment (equal to all) that they consider satisfactory. That's a step on the right direction because then you have comparable prices.

[smj]

Smackdaddy, what ever you do don't read this thread about a possible structural crack in an Oyster.:-)
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...62#post1700362


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[RTB]

Originally Posted by smj

Smackdaddy, what ever you do don't read this thread about a possible structural crack in an Oyster.:-)
What Could Have Caused This Crack? - Cruisers & Sailing Forums


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Ya silly troublemaker.....

How's Marathon these days? The grapevine says Mrs. smj is working at the WM there.

Ralph

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Polux

Don't believe those prices. A normally equipped boat will cost a lot more and it is completely useless to compare the price of basic boats since nobody is going to buy boats on that condition. Those prices can give you an idea but the only way to compare boat prices is to make a complete list of equipment that one considers indispensable and ask how much different boats will cost with the same equipment and then some funny things can happen:

A friend of mine interested in a boat with a lot of equipment made that list and asked about the Oceanis 38 and Dehler 38 price...and with similar equipment the Dehler was just a bit less expensive (that was in Europe). The basic price of Dehler is considerably higher than the one from the Oceanis.

Yacht.de, one of the best European boat magazines, not to have people fouled with that kind of stuff, when they test a boat they give the basic price and the price with a list of equipment (equal to all) that they consider satisfactory. That's a step on the right direction because then you have comparable prices.

Understood.
I still find it helpful to see which boats are positioned in the market as direct competitors (at a price point).

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by smj

Smackdaddy, what ever you do don't read this thread about a possible structural crack in an Oyster.:-)
What Could Have Caused This Crack? - Cruisers & Sailing Forums


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You are a Genius!!! enlight us...

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by smj

Smackdaddy, what ever you do don't read this thread about a possible structural crack in an Oyster.:-)
What Could Have Caused This Crack? - Cruisers & Sailing Forums


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Heh-heh. Candyland.

[Tx J]

Originally Posted by Polux

Well, not really and this time I had looked at Cornell's work regarding winds on that area and on the first part of the Journey from Panama the winds are less strong and mostly favorable. It depends on the zone but in Pacifc coast Central America the winds are favorable, in June, May and April also. On the Mexican coast it is better in June (Cyclones apart) worse on May and even worse on April. They are a lot worse on the Baja then on the half of the Mexican coast below that zone.


In April is really bad on the Baja with 86% of winds against averaging F4. On the Mexican coast South of it not that bad (about 50%) with an Average winds of F3, 3 days without wind on a month and some considerable percentage of favorable winds. South of Mexico the winds are favorable.


On the Mexican Baja coast in May those against winds are 84% and average F4, with two days without wind. On the Mexican coast to the South it is not different than on April and to the South of Mexico the winds are favorable.

In June (Hurricanes apart)it is better on the Baja with 82% of winds against averaging F3 and two days in a month without wind. On the Mexican coast South it is a bit better than on May with less than 50% winds against averaging F3, 2 days without wind on a month and some considerable percentage of favorable winds. South of Mexico the winds are even more favorable.

For what I understand Hurricanes pass South of the Mexican Baja area so if the Op makes arrives there at the end of May, it will be the best choice.

As most have said the Mexican Baja it will be the worse part but over that to S Francisco it would not be easy too. The winds in June are 86% against averaging (on those days) F4/F5, one day without wind on the month and the rest with F2 favorable winds. On July it will be 74% F4 against, 1 day without wind and the rest F2/f4 favorable winds. On August it will be 88% F4 against with one day without wind and the rest favorable winds F2 to F4.

On a small boat It will require going easy and with plenty time, waiting on the last part of the voyage, on anchorages or harbors, for favorable winds or less strong winds to be able to sail against or motor. The fact that the Hunter will be able to sail with little wind is a plus since the wind on the Central America it will be mostly weak as well as the days with favorable win on the last part of the voyage.

I hope it helps

Polux,
There are general sailing guides and statistics, and then there are the actual recent statistics.
Like this 2014 "Eastern North Pacific Tropical Weather Summary", which I will copy below (the NWS always uses 'Caps', as it dates back to the days of all-caps Teletypes/TWX).

The link to the source US NOAA National Hurricane Center page is: Monthly Eastern North Pacific Tropical Weather Summary .
From that, you may go on to examine much more detailed reports on the EP 2014 season (and all other recorded years).
Remember, these are just the "Named" storms, there are many others of lesser intensity that form there. Four or five of the named ones reached Cat V status (really bad asses).

The NHC analysts point out that it was a busy year versus the historical norm, but with our increasing (non-existent to some... ) "climate change/global warming", how willing should one be to roll the dice?
I mean: "Do you feel lucky today?" (to paraphrase a now sadly aging former actor/director/producer by the name of Clint).

Then, after pondering those kind of odds, how should the OP (who reads like an inexperienced sailor) proceed into a very long, multi-month voyage in a "marginal" vessel (according to some)?
Also look at the track map below and consider that all this stuff starts near right about the Panama Canal (and you have to factor in the satellite views which show the EP storm nursery hatching all those little babies in a somewhat wider area). Quite a gauntlet to run.

Monthly Eastern North Pacific Tropical Weather Summary
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"ABPZ30 KNHC 011444
TWSEP

MONTHLY TROPICAL WEATHER SUMMARY
NWS NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
800 AM PST MON DEC 1 2014

FOR THE EASTERN NORTH PACIFIC...EAST OF 140 DEGREES WEST LONGITUDE..

NO TROPICAL CYCLONES FORMED IN THE BASIN IN NOVEMBER. HOWEVER...
VANCE...WHICH FORMED IN LATE OCTOBER...REACHED HURRICANE INTENSITY
EARLY IN NOVEMBER. THIS IS UNUSUAL...SINCE A HURRICANE FORMS IN
NOVEMBER IN THE BASIN ONLY ABOUT ONCE EVERY SEVEN OR EIGHT YEARS
BASED ON A 30-YEAR (1981-2010) CLIMATOLOGY.

OVERALL...THE 2014 SEASON WAS EXTREMELY ACTIVE IN THE BASIN. TWENTY
NAMED STORMS FORMED...OF WHICH 14 BECAME HURRICANES...AND 8 OF THOSE
REACHED MAJOR HURRICANE STRENGTH IN THE BASIN. IN ADDITION...ONE
UNNAMED DEPRESSION FORMED DURING THE SEASON. BASED ON A 1981-2010
CLIMATOLOGY...THE SEASONAL ACTIVITY AVERAGES FOR THE BASIN ARE 15
NAMED STORMS...8 HURRICANES...AND 3 OR 4 MAJOR HURRICANES. FOR
2014...THE NUMBER OF NAMED STORMS...HURRICANES...AND MAJOR
HURRICANES WAS WELL ABOVE AVERAGE.

IN TERMS OF ACCUMULATED CYCLONE ENERGY...ACE...WHICH MEASURES THE
COMBINED STRENGTH AND DURATION OF TROPICAL STORMS AND HURRICANES...
ACTIVITY IN THE BASIN IN 2014 WAS 43 PERCENT ABOVE THE 1981-2010
AVERAGE VALUE. THIS IS THE SEVENTH HIGHEST ACE VALUE IN THE BASIN
SINCE RELIABLE RECORDS BEGAN IN 1971.

REPORTS ON INDIVIDUAL CYCLONES...WHEN COMPLETED...ARE AT THE WEB
SITE OF THE NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER...USE LOWER-CASE LETTERS...
WWW.HURRICANES.GOV/2014EPAC.SHTML

SUMMARY TABLE

NAME DATES MAX WIND (MPH)
---------------------------------------------------
MH AMANDA* 22-29 MAY 155
TS BORIS* 2-4 JUN 45
MH CRISTINA* 9-15 JUN 150
TS DOUGLAS 28 JUN-5 JUL 45
TS ELIDA* 30 JUN-2 JUL 50
TS FAUSTO* 7-9 JUL 45
MH GENEVIEVE 25 JUL-13 AUG** 160
H HERNAN* 26-29 JUL 75
MH ISELLE 31 JUL-9 AUG** 140
MH JULIO 4-15 AUG** 120
H KARINA* 13-26 AUG 85
H LOWELL 18-24 AUG 75
MH MARIE 22-29 AUG 160
MH NORBERT* 2-8 SEP 125
MH ODILE 10-17 SEP 135
TD SIXTEEN-E 11-15 SEP 35
H POLO 16-22 SEP 75
H RACHEL 24-30 SEP 85
MH SIMON 1-7 OCT 130
TS TRUDY 17-18 OCT 60
TS VANCE 30 OCT-5 NOV 110
---------------------------------------------------

* DENOTES A STORM FOR WHICH THE POST-STORM ANALYSIS IS COMPLETE.
** DATES INCLUDE THE TROPICAL CYCLONE STAGE IN THE CENTRAL
AND/OR WESTERN PACIFIC BASINS.

$$
HURRICANE SPECIALIST UNIT"

Preliminary Eastern North Pacific Tropical Cyclone Tracks

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by Tx J

Then, after pondering those kind of odds, how should the OP (who reads like an inexperienced sailor) proceed into a very long, multi-month voyage in a "marginal" vessel (according to some)?
Also look at the track map below and consider that all this stuff starts near right about the Panama Canal (and you have to factor in the satellite views which show the EP storm nursery hatching all those little babies in a somewhat wider area).

So let's cut to the chase - is your point that it would be okay for this guy to do this trip in a Hallberg-Rassy? It's just the "marginal boat" that's the problem?

[Exile]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

I totally agree with that. At the same time, only a rodeo clown would put himself into a situation that's that dangerous.

Now, I'm still waiting for all the others who have also been in "secure anchorages" and, like Keno, had their cushions, stuff, and people flying all over the cabin while the boat was coming apart to come into the thread and validate that claim.

I'm patient - and very intrigued.

Good of you to be so patient, but it's already been explained by both Kenomac & Steady Hand, and is common knowledge even for noobs who opt to stay on their anchored boats as opposed to finding a dock and hotel to overnight in.

In case you chose to disregard it, here's a reminder of how another Hunter owner put it (RTB):

I have had cockpit cushions thrown onto the floor on several rolly anchorages. I've also felt weightless trying to sleep in the V-Berth, as the boat falls off waves while anchored on the Great Bahama Bank during thunderstorms. Two nights in a row.

But before you seek crisis intervention from your life coach, take comfort knowing that this phenomena you'll never experience yourself is not limited to Hunter's:

(SMJ) -- Our first catamaran, a Catfisher 32 would roll violently if hit by a beam sea or beam wake. So yes, we have been on a boat in a secure anchorage and had stuff flying across the boat caused by a large wake. Very un catamaran like!

Ever since you brought it up, I can't help wondering what exactly DOES lie underneath that mysterious bottom job prep work on that Oyster? And how about that crack in the formica laminate on that other Oyster's forward bulkhead?? You should really take Neil's advice & investigate. I'm sure there's absolutely NO good reason why crappy bluewater boats like Oysters & Hallberg-Rassey's deserve to cost three times as much as similarly-sized mass-produced boats. I bet for a million bucks-plus they don't even include velcro to keep the cushions from falling on the floor!

Can we now leave behind the internet clown antics & return to the educational stuff?

[Exile]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

So let's cut to the chase - is your point that it would be okay for this guy to do this trip in a Hallberg-Rassy? It's just the "marginal boat" that's the problem?

After a lengthy post detailing all the unusual weather patterns, the possible lack of experience of the OP, and assorted other factors, this is all you came away with??