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Old 19-03-2010, 15:29   #61
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Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
The underlying theme is to not sweat the gadgets gone arye, but to make do as if their not an essential part of the larger scope of things which is to cruise.
This biggest problem I see is that people only give lip service to the idea of not sweating it when gadgets break.

Few choose to continue when some gadget, now perceived to be "essential," breaks. The objective becomes to get it fixed. Few actually practice the mantra espoused here.

This results in delayed departures, possibly resulting in bad weather windows, or changing destinations to find marine supplies and services. Not to mention reductions in the cruising kitty.

My friends in the South Pacific report that the farther from home they get, the smaller and simpler are the boats sharing their anchorages.

Which is not to say it can't be done big and complex, only that, in fact, small and simple seems to make the remote cruise happen more often.
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Old 22-03-2010, 06:40   #62
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Hiracer, sure we want to get our high-tec, or 'luxury' items fixed if they break - but missing a good weather window and then leaving in a bad one in order to do it? Frankly, you are insulting every owner of a boat wtih complex systems - bad seamanship is bad seamanship, regardless of the vessel. If an essential component of boat breaks, in order to get it repaired you could still miss a good weather window, but that doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean that you would then choose to leave in a bad one.

Furthermore, you friend's suggestion that only the simple boats are actually out there cruising just doesn't jive with what one sees in harbours in this day and age. Just as the average size of cruising boats has increased over the last 10 - 15 years (and for monohulls, 45 feet now seems to be about average), so has the complexity of the average cruising boat. The era when the typical cruising boat was a Westail 32 without furling or refrigeration (and carrying a hard shell dinghy on deck) is over. Yes, they are still out there, but they are decidedly not the norm.

Do these systems cost money (to purchase as well as maintain) and thereby take away from the cruising kitty? No more than the cost of buying a bigger boat. If you prefer to cruise without refrigeration, fans, furling, wind instruments, a chartplotter, autopilot, windlass, sat phone, etc., that is your right. However, please don't suggest that those who do are not real sailors, or cruisers.

Brad
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Old 22-03-2010, 08:52   #63
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Complicated, for who? It's a very very subjective word. What's complicated for someone is a piece of cake for another. For me I will have NOTHING on my boat that I can't fix, period. I may CHOICE to let someone else fix it if that's an option, but I don't have to. There's not much I can't fix, by the way. How folks can sail off yonder with a boat full of systems that they don't have a clue about is a wonder to me.

My story as told by my cousin. eight people fly to the Bahamas for a two week trip on a friends 50' MY. 2nd day the AC breaks, back to Nassau for repairs..END OF TRIP!! Can't live w/o AC,...What a pity...
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Old 22-03-2010, 09:03   #64
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Randy, I can repair most things on board my boat as well (apart from electronics such as chartplotters, which frequently are not DIY 'repairable' in the normal sense). Having said that, one still has to purchase parts and these may, or may not be available in all cruising destinations. Lets face it, you can't carry spares for everything.

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Old 22-03-2010, 09:43   #65
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My story as told by my cousin. eight people fly to the Bahamas for a two week trip on a friends 50' MY. 2nd day the AC breaks, back to Nassau for repairs..END OF TRIP!! Can't live w/o AC,...What a pity...
OK here is our first real confirmed tragic ending to a Two week charter due to gadgets failing.

Now to be the devil's advocate here...Sounds like these people would have caught the first flight back home leaving paradise period if there hotel A/C went belly up.

So here again this is not proof of anything other then we have 8 Manhattan city dwellers ( I just picked a city) that thought in there mind how wonderful 2 weeks aboard a 50' YACHT....( Already they are screwed) would be a fun, spur of the moment getaway with idyllic conditions...You know stop every day and get those Umbrella drinks crowd.

I have to believe that anyone here conversing on sailing forums is just a tad bit more hard core then most, and I did just only say most , once a year planners of vacation getaways with friends.

Yes I'm taking a lot of liberty's here but so does all the gadget adverse crowd telling me I will give up as soon as one of mine implodes

Wanna bet some money on it?..

Any way these are the stories I wanted to hear about to see where y'all developed this theory...so keep them comming.

The tally thus far.

1) Mutiny by midget boob-tubers
2) A/C destroys idyllic dreams
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Old 22-03-2010, 12:30   #66
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Brad,

First of all, if I'm insulting anybody then I'm included in the insulted class, as my boat is about as complex as it gets. I don't have air conditioning, and I admit I threw out the TV and microwave. But most everything else I got, except the watermaker which the prior owner took off--but she's plumbed and wired for another unit any time.

Second, I'm perfectly aware that the size and complexity of the average cruising boat has increased. But what I'm trying to communicate is that once you get off the milk run, and get into remote areas where help is non-existent, simple boats, from what I'm hearing, are still overrepresented.

That's not an opinion or value judgment. It's a statement of fact. How you deal with it is no reflection on me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Hiracer, sure we want to get our high-tec, or 'luxury' items fixed if they break - but missing a good weather window and then leaving in a bad one in order to do it? Frankly, you are insulting every owner of a boat wtih complex systems - bad seamanship is bad seamanship, regardless of the vessel. If an essential component of boat breaks, in order to get it repaired you could still miss a good weather window, but that doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean that you would then choose to leave in a bad one.

Furthermore, you friend's suggestion that only the simple boats are actually out there cruising just doesn't jive with what one sees in harbours in this day and age. Just as the average size of cruising boats has increased over the last 10 - 15 years (and for monohulls, 45 feet now seems to be about average), so has the complexity of the average cruising boat. The era when the typical cruising boat was a Westail 32 without furling or refrigeration (and carrying a hard shell dinghy on deck) is over. Yes, they are still out there, but they are decidedly not the norm.

Do these systems cost money (to purchase as well as maintain) and thereby take away from the cruising kitty? No more than the cost of buying a bigger boat. If you prefer to cruise without refrigeration, fans, furling, wind instruments, a chartplotter, autopilot, windlass, sat phone, etc., that is your right. However, please don't suggest that those who do are not real sailors, or cruisers.

Brad
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Old 22-03-2010, 12:33   #67
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Complicated, for who? It's a very very subjective word.
Spot on, so long as Brad pointed out that you have the tools and spare parts.
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Old 22-03-2010, 13:06   #68
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However, please don't suggest that those who do are not real sailors, or cruisers.
And stop putting words in my mouth. That's rude. I never suggested that.

I stand by what I said in my second post in this thread:

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My boat is complex, but I'm always thinking about how to keep her moving in the event I have no electricity or other major systems go bonkers. It's an engineering fact of life that simple systems can be made more dependable. When you're truly on your own that unfortunately can become very important.

I don't view it as an either/or decision. I have the complex systems for comfort. I need the simple systems for their dependability.

As it has been said, you're only one lightning bolt away from the age of sail, and it can be a long ways home.
Why in the hell would I suggest that me, I, and myself, are not a real sailors?
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Old 22-03-2010, 14:54   #69
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Hiracer, I took your comment that people are only giving "lip service" to sweating it out when gadgets break, as meaning that people who say that (or who have posted to that effect ) are being less than honest. Further, "'few choose to continue when some gadget, now perceived to be 'essential', breaks", certainly appears to suggest that only a few of those with complex boats, are sailor enough to continue on without their non-essential 'gadgets'. Nevertheless, I am glad to hear that such was not your intention.

I am still less than confident that it is a fact, rather than merely your friends' opinions, that the further one gets from home "in the South Pacific, the smaller and simpler are the boats." Are there some recent surveys/statistics to support this? While you may own a complex boat, what about those who expressed that opinion?

In any case, I admit that I will likely only sail on what you perceive to be 'the milk run', but I can confidently say that those places I avoid will not be due to the lack of full-service marine facilities.

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Old 22-03-2010, 15:13   #70
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Brad,

Seems everybody cruising these days has a website and/or blog. I read them.

I read about the efforts made to fix the watermaker, the water pump, the autopilot, the solar panels, the refrigeration, the chart plotters, etc. I read about the delayed departures, the change in destinations.

What I read there is at odds with what I read in this thread.

That's what I'm pointing out. There's a disconnect between the mantra espoused in this thread and storylines of most of the blogs and websites by cruisers out there right now.

I know it's impolite of me to do so, but I can't help myself. I actually think there's some value to it. Something to be learned.

Again, I think it comes down to where one wants to go cruising. I started with and hope to end cruising remote areas, so I certainly come at these issues from an angle different from most people.
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Old 22-03-2010, 15:17   #71
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Glad were all still good friends ...keep the stories comming people...this is fun.

Hey John Im ready for that beer...State cup soccer is in the way for the next few week ends though!..OK
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Old 22-03-2010, 15:27   #72
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Glad were all still good friends ...keep the stories comming people...this is fun.

Hey John Im ready for that beer...State cup soccer is in the way for the next few week ends though!..OK
I'm a professional disagreeor. I can disagree with somebody and drink beer with'm at the same time. Even with one hand tied behind my back.

Brad's OK; he just misread me a bit.

But that beer is gonna have to wait until second half of April. Getting ready to backpack the Grand Canyon (the big ditch) and life is pretty complicated right now.

Which is why I gotta get out of this thread . . . .
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Old 22-03-2010, 16:26   #73
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Randy, I can repair most things on board my boat as well (apart from electronics such as chartplotters, which frequently are not DIY 'repairable' in the normal sense). Having said that, one still has to purchase parts and these may, or may not be available in all cruising destinations. Lets face it, you can't carry spares for everything.

Brad

so true. And there in-lies the big rub. It's also the main reason I like simple and try not to get too soft as I age.
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Old 22-03-2010, 16:28   #74
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OK here is our first real confirmed tragic ending to a Two week charter due to gadgets failing.

Now to be the devil's advocate here...Sounds like these people would have caught the first flight back home leaving paradise period if there hotel A/C went belly up.

So here again this is not proof of anything other then we have 8 Manhattan city dwellers ( I just picked a city) that thought in there mind how wonderful 2 weeks aboard a 50' YACHT....( Already they are screwed) would be a fun, spur of the moment getaway with idyllic conditions...You know stop every day and get those Umbrella drinks crowd.

I have to believe that anyone here conversing on sailing forums is just a tad bit more hard core then most, and I did just only say most , once a year planners of vacation getaways with friends.

Yes I'm taking a lot of liberty's here but so does all the gadget adverse crowd telling me I will give up as soon as one of mine implodes

Wanna bet some money on it?..

Any way these are the stories I wanted to hear about to see where y'all developed this theory...so keep them comming.

The tally thus far.

1) Mutiny by midget boob-tubers
2) A/C destroys idyllic dreams

why are you asking?? sounds like you've got your mind made up. You'll learn as you go hopefully

Remember that you have an audience of maybe .0001% of the cruisers out there.
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Old 22-03-2010, 17:07   #75
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if it's that bad, pee in your pants in cockpit as it's the least of your problems, the last thing I'm going to do is try to stick one of my favorite body parts into the neck of a bottle while being tossed around
Cockpit drains have a number of uses...
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