Radar is now redundant ?

[mstrebe]

Daysailors and weekenders don't need radar and never have needed it. But anyone who has to sail at night or through weather near shore (especially fog) would never go without it. The fact is that most non-commercial vessels below 65 feet do not transmit AIS and likely never will, and coming into port with any kind of visibility reduction makes Radar invaluable.

Having Radar has completely opened up safe night passages for me and I do them all the time. They're impossible without it.

[garychurch]

I consider radar essential. If you are ever in reduced visibility conditions it could save your boat or your life or someone else’s.

At night or in fog you can see unlit obstruction and unlit boats, piers, piling, buoys, etc.

In addition I have found it invaluable for tracking thunderstorms and rain.

[MoCan]

Radar is very comforting when sailing wherever icebergs may be found.

[Sailorman97]

Originally Posted by Lionshooter

Times have changed for sailors these days...45 years ago, I was delivering boats to other countries with a compass, a sextant, an RDF, and eyeballs.

45 yrs ago people were still dying of small pox. There were no heart or organ transplants and and very few people had computers. That is not the case now and that is a good thing.

45 yrs ago my first skipper and his crew at the time sailed the Susan Hood race using an Ontario Brewers Retail map as a chart. Times have indeed changed.

I am happy to have all the bells and whistles. Happier still when they all work.

[Pegu Club]

On the occasion that I posted up Thread, post #193, we only had an AIS receiver, we now have an AIS transceiver, and have a radar as our next Nav aid purchase, as said repeatedly up thread, AIS can only sight, those broadcasting AIS, and nothing else. Had I to do it all over again, I would have started off with Radar.

Fair winds,

[Brooke Smith]

AIS looks around bends in the ICW. With AIS I know a tug is going to be in a meeting situation, CPA and how many minutes away this is about to happen. And, the tug knows who I am, the name of my vessel if he wants to call me on the radio. None of that is known with radar. I might get caught out in a fog one day and certainly will get caught out in heavy rain where radar could be useful. I do not get underway on days with bad weather forecasts so using radar to actually get underway in bad conditions is something I do not do. I was a radarman in the USN for 6 years. I removed the older radar from my trawler when I bought it. Underway with radar you are more liable for an accidental collision than without radar. Even if it is the other boat at fault it is assumed you should have been able to avoid the collision using radar. Then you are judged by not using the radar properly, properly trained on radar use, your boat is equipped with radar but it is broken. You were in violation of the LOOKOUT rule - not keeping a proper lookout using all means including radar. I am less liable in a collision than if I had radar and it was switched off, broken, was distracted by other needs of boat operation or I didn't have a certification of being radar trained.
Weather radar is easily pulled up live on any internet connected device and with greater distance than a radar installed boat.

[Dooglas]

"and AIS streaming from every other vessel" - Hmmm, where do you sail? That is certainly not the case in the waters where I routinely operate. And your faith in electronic charts and AIS does not take into account the advantage of redundancy. Electronics certainly fail often enough. (I would make a similar comment about integrated systems, where you lose all information if any component fails)

[nofacey]

Depends where you cruise ��
- spent years sailing tropical waters banding the equator - was fortunate to have all the electronic tools……vhf, SSB, InReach, multiple GPS, multiple chartplotters, transmitting AIS, radar ++ GPS & AIS were on 24/7.
I could see frieghters 24 nm away…..and they could see me - know that because I’d see their course adjust a couple degrees away from us. Navigated thru fleets of foreign offshore fishing boats (and yep, they had AIS turned on).
Was in a group of 5 cruisers approaching Papeete before dawn, in a squall….with a freighter & a fast ferry going thru us ……was watching using both AIS & MARPA on radar……never a doubt on everyone’s position on AIS……MARPA was sketchy within the squall…..where we all were!
So for a tropical cruising sailor, radar was very seldom used……and AIS allowed over the horizon awareness of bigger faster ships that were a routine hazard for a sailboat.

Routinely navigating a foggy rocky coast raises the benefit of radar……but I can always decide to just hang too.

I’ve had radar on 3 vessels now - honestly, it’s never truly earned it’s keep. I’m not commercial, and I avoid sailing to a schedule.

[dbaoter]

When we cruised Mexico, the electronic charts were 2-3 miles offset to the East. We would find ourselves contentedly cruising on land. Often wondered what the Admiralty court would think. Most fishing vessels do not have AIS. Radar was most useful.

[nonav]

RADAR is redundant in some cases, and obviously used in conjunction with other navaids.

When you GPS takes the week off, that RADAR comes in handy.

GPS also does not show waves or sea state up ahead.

We use RADAR quite often for that, and I ran an inlet at night twice last season by RADAR alone.

No ranges or lighted buoys to plan approach accurately enough.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by BB7

With a large screen displaying GPS location on a super detailed chart, and AIS streaming from every other vessel, I wonder if Radar is now an outdated and redundant technology?
I have radar, but very rarely use it since the GPS chart is better.
Will soon be speccing up a new boat, and wonder if Radar is worth having.

Thoughts from your experience ?

Definitely NOT redundant. Complementary, actually. Have you ever seen a floating shipping container with AIS? Or a longline bouy? Lots of small or recreational vessels have no AIS. Best case, have radar AND AIS AND electronic chart display. With a stabilized display you can have acquired radar contacts superimposed on your ECDIS along with AIS contacts, so you get all that data in one display. Combine that with the Mk.1 eyeballs with binocular assist, and you have the full package.

Certainly it can be understood that one might want to forego the expense of a radar set, but even cost is not a great obstacle. There are systems that are pretty darn cheap that are suitable for small yachts, and they are pretty easy on the juice, too, so if you have a reasolably big bank you don't need to run the diesel or the genset to run the radar. Many users keep it on standby and power up only when required or every 10 minutes or so.

I would almost say that radar is more important than AIS, actually. Where full AIS is a really essential tool is when you are around a lot of ships or tug and barge traffic, oilfield supply or crew boats, etc and you want to be seen by THEIR AIS system as well as see them on yours. Around only other recreational and fishing vessels, where many do not even have AIS receivers, not so important and Radar will be the more useful. But again, having both is great. Sort of like having both HF SSB and Satellite comms. One doesn't cancel out the usefulness of the other. They are complementary.

[donradcliffe]

I have to say radar paid for itself one windy night in Vanuatu. We were anchored behind a reef with 5 other boats and all were having cocktails on one of the boats. After a bit, someone said where is XXXX, I don't see their anchor light any more??

We turned on the radar, and sure enough XXXX had dragged anchor and was over 2 miles away, drifting toward an island less than 10 miles downwind. They upped anchor on one of the other boats and caught up with XXXX about 3 miles from the rocks. That was one of the few times we used the radar that season.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Does anyone know how to sail any longer?

Yep, at night w the RADAR on!

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

I have to say radar paid for itself one windy night in Vanuatu. We were anchored behind a reef with 5 other boats and all were having cocktails on one of the boats. After a bit, someone said where is XXXX, I don't see their anchor light any more??



We turned on the radar, and sure enough XXXX had dragged anchor and was over 2 miles away, drifting toward an island less than 10 miles downwind. They upped anchor on one of the other boats and caught up with XXXX about 3 miles from the rocks. That was one of the few times we used the radar that season.

Ha! Reminds me of a similar event on a breezy night. Having coktails on a friend's boat... notice a boat gone walk about towards the reef...OH Crap! Thats my boat!

[donradcliffe]

While I'm at it, there are places where there is no substitute for good light and eyeball navigation. This is the entrance to Niuetoputapu in Tonga. A great anchorage with a 50 yard wide pass through the reef. Don't try this on radar, and the charts were over a half mile off.

I have marked and circled the wreck of the Golden Dawn, a 110 ft steel schooner. They circumnavigated the island, bumped a reef doing it, and arrived at the entrance too late to get in, so they anchored in the lee of the island. After dinner they noticed water over the floorboards, and the boat sank early the next morning after all their pumps failed. It makes a nice dive spot.