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Old 25-03-2015, 03:01   #1
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Navionics from Scratch.....

So, time to upgrade all my Yachtronics, BUT of course on a budget.

I would love a B&G or SIMRAD set-up, but they just don't have a viable Autopilot for me.... It seems the only option I have is the RAYMARINE, and I don't want a cheap RAYMARINE, I want a Linear drive unit, not a wheel and belt unit, so this leads me to their p70 control head and a Linear drive, I cant find anyone that produces anything similar anywhere near the price.

If I have the P70, it makes sense to have i70 SDT & Wind instruments. I propose to connect these to the seatalk input of the Brookhouse imux multiplexer.

I then propose to connect a Standard horizon Matrix GX2200 VHF/AIS/GPS to the NMEA 0183 input of the Imux,

This on the face of it, would make all the information I require, available to my Ipad running Inavx for navigation.

I would have preferred the Vespermarine Xb8000, but I just can't justify the cost...... do I REALLY need AIS TX??.... I rarely leave Sydney harbor, and never leave site of the coast.....

So this is my proposal. I would dearly love any input based on theory or experience of this set up, before I start spending!!!
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Old 25-03-2015, 03:15   #2
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Re: Navionics from Scratch.....

I love my Vespermarine Xb8000 ... but if you are only day sailing in Sydney harbour do you need AIS at all? Even short trips to Pittwater or Botany can be completed during daylight, and most of the traffic in Port Jackson is sail, and won't have AIS on anyways (and you can see the container ships and ferries).

That said, the Vespermarine Xb8000 is also a gps, a nmea0183 - 2000 bridge, nmea-wifi bridge, and all that AIS stuff.
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Old 25-03-2015, 03:43   #3
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Re: Navionics from Scratch.....

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Originally Posted by jannw View Post
I love my Vespermarine Xb8000 ... but if you are only day sailing in Sydney harbour do you need AIS at all? Even short trips to Pittwater or Botany can be completed during daylight, and most of the traffic in Port Jackson is sail, and won't have AIS on anyways (and you can see the container ships and ferries).

That said, the Vespermarine Xb8000 is also a gps, a nmea0183 - 2000 bridge, nmea-wifi bridge, and all that AIS stuff.
You're probably right, I don't REALLY need AIS, but it is such an inexpensive build in to a VHF, you (I) would be mad not to have it...... just for the odd Night excursion.... or sail past Wollongong or Newcastle.....
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Old 25-03-2015, 06:35   #4
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Re: Navionics from Scratch.....

I spent years day-sailing in Sydney harbour, sometimes out of the heads, and up to pittwatter, without a GPS, or a chart plotter, with a handheld VHF which was used once? to call up a race committee boat about a confusing flag signal. No autopilot either (we had some rope to tie the tiller off though).

You asked about input "before you started spending money" ... I think you'll find that most of the recreational boats in Sydney with all that electronics never turn any of it on. I sailed (raced) lots and on lots of different boats, and I can't remember anyone sailing with their VHF turned on, chart plotter on, never used an autopilot, no one had AIS, etc.
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Old 25-03-2015, 07:09   #5
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Re: Navionics from Scratch.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gi-Lo View Post

I would love a B&G or SIMRAD set-up, but they just don't have a viable Autopilot for me.... It seems the only option I have is the RAYMARINE, and I don't want a cheap RAYMARINE, I want a Linear drive unit, not a wheel and belt unit, so this leads me to their p70 control head and a Linear drive, I cant find anyone that produces anything similar anywhere near the price.

Help us understand what you mean here. Is your boat big enough that you need hydraulic linear drive? Can you get by with direct drive? You buy the linear drive separate from the electronics and, in many cases, what works for a Simrad unit will also work for Raymarine.

I have had both systems: full Simrad setup with AC series autopilot as well as a full Raymarine setup with e series plotter and Evolution / P70 pilot. I found Simrad's to be superior in most categories.
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Old 25-03-2015, 13:34   #6
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Re: Navionics from Scratch.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jannw View Post
I spent years day-sailing in Sydney harbour, sometimes out of the heads, and up to pittwatter, without a GPS, or a chart plotter, with a handheld VHF which was used once? to call up a race committee boat about a confusing flag signal. No autopilot either (we had some rope to tie the tiller off though).

You asked about input "before you started spending money" ... I think you'll find that most of the recreational boats in Sydney with all that electronics never turn any of it on. I sailed (raced) lots and on lots of different boats, and I can't remember anyone sailing with their VHF turned on, chart plotter on, never used an autopilot, no one had AIS, etc.
Thanks for your opinion.I was hoping for a technical discussion on whether this system would work, rather than whether it was justified. I could navigate by the stars, but I choose not too.... I own an ipad and Inavx is a very useful cheap app. I don't want a chart plotter I sail single handed a lot, and an Autopilot is a MUST for me. I volunteer for Marine Rescue, and I wish EVERY boater was equipped with a VHF. When your racing, people are looking out for you, when you go sailing on your own, especially out of the heads, you are a fool if you don't log on and off with Marine Rescue, of course that's my opinion.
I would love your technical opinions on this set up.
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Old 25-03-2015, 14:25   #7
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Re: Navionics from Scratch.....

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Originally Posted by Garrettw View Post
Help us understand what you mean here. Is your boat big enough that you need hydraulic linear drive? Can you get by with direct drive? You buy the linear drive separate from the electronics and, in many cases, what works for a Simrad unit will also work for Raymarine.

I have had both systems: full Simrad setup with AC series autopilot as well as a full Raymarine setup with e series plotter and Evolution / P70 pilot. I found Simrad's to be superior in most categories.
Hi, thanks for your response. The boat was fitted with an Autohelm 4000 and wheel belt drive, which is beyond viable repair. It is a33' boat displacing about 5 tonnes.
I am not a fan of belt drives, and the boat does not have any form of emergency steering. so Installing a linear drive on the quadrant in the flats serves a number of purposes. It allows steering if the steering wheel or wires became faulty, it will last a lot longer than a belt drive and require less maintenance, and is a lot less clutter in the cockpit. I am not proposing to use a hydraulic linear drive, rather a mechanical linear drive, like the Raymarine here;

http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=579&collectionid=30&col=5915

The Raymarine Package including this drive is $3843 in Australia (always more expensive than the U.S.)

The closest B&G equivalent I can find is around $5,500, again I believe this is a mechanical linear drive unit.

I believe that Simrad only make a Hydraulic linear drive which is more expensive again.

So the Raymarine is looking favourite at the moment!
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Old 25-03-2015, 14:57   #8
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Re: Navionics from Scratch.....

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Originally Posted by Gi-Lo View Post
The Raymarine Package including this drive is $3843 in Australia (always more expensive than the U.S.)

The closest B&G equivalent I can find is around $5,500, again I believe this is a mechanical linear drive unit.

I believe that Simrad only make a Hydraulic linear drive which is more expensive again.

So the Raymarine is looking favourite at the moment!
Simrad actually has electric drives. Look at the Simrad DD15 or the SD10 either of which would be used for your boat I would suspect. I had the DD15 on my old 37ft boat. Very strong unit and it had low power consumption. If you get a simrad MFD you don't necessarily need a control head, fyi. I did have an OP10 remote control so I could do basic functions without using the MFD, but for my Simrad installation, I didn't have a dedicated control head.
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Old 31-03-2015, 23:53   #9
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Re: Navionics from Scratch.....

Garmin offers a similar unit to raymarines liner actuator drive for about the same price point and based on the drawings (and a bad experience with raymarines type 2 drive) better design.


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Old 15-05-2015, 02:15   #10
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Re: Navionics from Scratch.....

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Originally Posted by Garrettw View Post
Simrad actually has electric drives. Look at the Simrad DD15 or the SD10 either of which would be used for your boat I would suspect. I had the DD15 on my old 37ft boat. Very strong unit and it had low power consumption. If you get a simrad MFD you don't necessarily need a control head, fyi. I did have an OP10 remote control so I could do basic functions without using the MFD, but for my Simrad installation, I didn't have a dedicated control head.
Sorry for the delayed response, thanks for this info, I have been chasing it up, and you are right, the guy told me that I dont need a dedicated control head if I have the Zeus7 MFD........ they have now brought out the very good looking B&G Vulcan 7" display.... just wondering if this will do the same job??
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Old 15-05-2015, 04:29   #11
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Re: Navionics from Scratch.....

Raymarine pilots are absolutely fine in my experience.

But I would not rely on an IPad -- fragile consumer electronics -- for primary navigation. The 7" Raymarine chart plotter is cheap as chips, and interfaces with their pilots, and even has wifi built into it. It's real marine electronics, waterproof, rugged, hardwired, and daylight visible. Use the IPad as secondary/backup. I think you can connect the IPad by wifi and remotely operate the plotter.

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Old 15-05-2015, 06:00   #12
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Re: Navionics from Scratch.....

I would never rely on any one gps I always run two and compare. My chart plotter is the very first iPad they made with navitronics charts. Mine lives behind dodger and bellow Bimini. It is also very useful to get ground base weather radar. It is cheap,20% of marine unit, leaves money for replacements.



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Old 15-05-2015, 06:08   #13
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Re: Navionics from Scratch.....

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I would never rely on any one gps I always run two and compare. My chart plotter is the very first iPad they made with navitronics charts. Mine lives behind dodger and bellow Bimini. It is also very useful to get ground base weather radar. It is cheap,20% of marine unit, leaves money for replacements.



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Raymarine E7 is $869 from the GPS Store; I've seen it for $750 on sale. I don't think you can get an IPad for 20% of that.

It only takes one boarding sea to knock out your IPad, or slip and drop it, or sit on it, or rain gets on it, or the battery dies just as you are entering a strange port at night (that actually happened to me once).

Nothing wrong with IPad navigation; I use one myself with INavX and Navionics charts. But as backup, not primary navigation!
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Old 15-05-2015, 06:15   #14
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Re: Navionics from Scratch.....

I use a Life Proof Nuude case for my iPad 2, fully functional, and fully waterproof. I have it mounted in the cockpit on a ram mount. It's always on a waterproof charge when in use, this keeps the pesky habit of going into sleep mode at bay. I also use Drag Queen anchor watch software as well.

I say it's not my primary navigation tool, but usage wise, it kinda is.
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Old 15-05-2015, 07:23   #15
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Re: Navionics from Scratch.....

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Raymarine E7 is $869 from the GPS Store; I've seen it for $750 on sale. I don't think you can get an IPad for 20% of that.

It only takes one boarding sea to knock out your IPad, or slip and drop it, or sit on it, or rain gets on it, or the battery dies just as you are entering a strange port at night (that actually happened to me once).

Nothing wrong with IPad navigation; I use one myself with INavX and Navionics charts. But as backup, not primary navigation!
Wow I have not priced raymarine for a while but still not a fan, helped dock buddy programming his what a pain. I see your objections to to a iPad but I would only use as follows.

iPad has 9.5 inch colored display and for $800 you get full north American charts, ground based radar and IAS and rest of computer.

Would you not mount and run power supply to your raymarine? My I pad has case mounted In front of my wheel with a 12volt plug right beside it.

Really handy to unplug and take below and compare to paper charts.







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