Is radar like the extinct typewriter?

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Each Radar is different, but in order to get the best performance you need to turn off all the automatic levels and learn how to individually manipulate them in conjunction at different ranges to get the best performance.

Ie. Generically called:
TUNE/GAIN/RAIN/CLUTTER/BRILLIANCE

Beginners often try to set for a clear picture (which the automatic settings are designed for)...This is a mistake as you want a sensitive speckled return of tiny wave targets to be assured of slightly stronger returns of tiny targets like driftwood or fish buoys.

Practicing your radar skills in daylight to confirm seeing actual small targets or how to manually turn your gain and retune at smaller ranges, is the only way to become competent with your Radar.

Good advice. As a starting point, I recall my manual recommending going out to max range, turning all filters off, and then turning up the gain until you see the small speckles you mention. You then go closer to min. range and filter out sea clutter, but only to the point where targets are clearly visible. Again, only a starting point, but a helpful one until one gets the hang of it. I was also advised not to rely on the auto settings but mine is an older analog unit. Not sure if the auto settings on the newer radars have improved.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Big boats like Kens Oyster often have one in the cockpit and another display down below at the nav station but that's expensive. Smaller boats usually have just one display. In the old days (before radar displays were waterproof) that would have been located at the nav station but now it's usually found in the cockpit. If you are thinking of adding a radar, I think it's important if you have one display, have it at the front of the cockpit rather than back at the helm. In Kens video you can see that his wife has the radar display up behind the dodger where it's normally a lot more sheltered and warmer and more likely to be actually looked at during a long, cold, late night watch with the autopilot engaged.

The recent trend of using the same screen for your plotter as well as your radar and having them both back at the helm isn't very useful if you're huddled behind the dodger while on watch and that's where I usually hang out. When you're far from land it's OK to not look at the chartplotter very often but the radar display needs to be located somewhere that you'll actually look at it frequently enough to notice a potential obstruction before it becomes a danger to you. For coastal cruising, I think it's OK (but not preferred) to have the only radar display back at the helm, but offshore it's a recipe for the radar not being looked at very often and that nearly defeats the purpose of having it.

My understanding is that many of the newer digital radars allow radar images to be repeated not only on a computer, but also wirelessly onto a tablet or even a smartphone, both of which can be protected with waterproof covers. In other words, you can view radar, AIS, and chartplotter anywhere onboard.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by coxhaus

So with all you radar users do you mount the screen in the cockpit so you can see it all the time or down below?
I am especially interested in sailboat users.

Given what I said in my previous post about being able to manually tune the radar for different conditions, it makes sense to have the Radar where the lookout is.
On a sailboat that is of course the cockpit.

When I bought stargazer in 2004, the radar was in the pilothouse and I found it awkward to get the most out of it...in that location.

Now I have a 15“ FURUNO TZ2 at the cockpit pedestal, so that I can better learn to get the most out of it. A separate monitor in the pilothouse is primarily there for watching other boats at anchor

.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Just goes to show.. us much maligned small boat single handers (no radar) put the 'Professionals' to shame.. we see them 12miles off but then have to tell them when we're 750 odd metres off..
Actually.. they usually ask WTF I'm doing out there in that kind of weather when they find out its a 21-22ft boat..

It is the bane of my life when I see fantastic equipment little used or mal used. Id kill for some testing equipment that I see condemned to a corner of a hospital or set up in such a way that whom ever uses it doesnt get the results they should and then malign the product.

Same with RADAR. Those who dont have it have to work harder at observation and most who do have it dont use it properly.

Grrrrr.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

coxhaus,

In the past, we've had one below, now it is mounted under the dodger, where it can be seen from the helm, a better deal, imo.

To the poster who wrote that radar is not good in the fog, that is not our experience, it is super in fog. It doesn't like rain downpours, though, and will get so many returns from the drops that you are blind. There are chartplotters that will display radar data, along with the ships. The radar will show you the actual shoreline, which may or may not have been charted to be in the correct position. Most civilized areas are well charted, but those with less commercial values, less so. The radar overlay will also show you squalls. 'Tis a useful tool.

Ann

In rain, you can adjust filters/gain to see more or less of the rain depending on your use (storm avoidance or seeing the ship hidden in the squall).

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by boatman61

On every boat I've delivered the main screen has been down below.. tho' the newer boats have them wired (secondary) into the CP at the helm with split screen facility.

Mine uses the same display as the chartplotter and has an overlay ability (RADAR over chart) which is very handy for confirming location of navaids/land. Mounted at helm.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

In rain, you can adjust filters/gain to see more or less of the rain depending on your use (storm avoidance or seeing the ship hidden in the squall).

Better signal processing, has improved radar performance in rain.

The CW radars (Navico 3G, 4G) are particularly good.

It's also a question of skill, as others have mentioned -- to know how much rain filter to apply, not to blot out real targets, and then be able to distinguish them with your own eyes.

But even the simplest radar set, sees better in rain, than we can.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

. . . Now I have a 15“ FURUNO TZ2 at the cockpit pedestal, so that I can better learn to get the most out of it. A separate monitor in the pilothouse is primarily there for watching other boats at anchor

.Attachment 133441

So you use yours at anchor too, eh? I thought I was the only one. And when anchoring. Our small radars are not capable of giving very accurate bearings, but they are extremely accurate for range, and this leads to all kinds of different very useful applications. A radar guard zone is a superior anchor alarm for very many situations -- and the only device which is capable of warning you about another vessel swinging into you.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Sorry but the professional captains know a lot more than the best recreational boater. Their equipment isn't always the best but they know how to use it to it's best ability. If the navy can make a destroyer look like a fishing boat you don't stand much chance of being seen on radar. Don't mean to pop you security blanket.
Don't let electronics stand in the way of good watch keeping.

My security blanket is intact along with a diverse experience of large ship operation to yours.

You have not validated your stance so far and at this point I feel our differences are too large to accommodate an agreement.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

But even the simplest radar set, sees better in rain, than we can.

Finally! Someone done said what is the obvious.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

But even the simplest radar set, sees better in rain, than we can.

Originally Posted by weavis

Finally! Someone done said what is the obvious.

Rubbish..!!!

[weavis]

I was just talking to Boatie. I realise that I have a preference for RADAR along with MRI and X Ray units.

They see what I cannot see. They give me information on a massive scale simply because I took the time to learn how to read the data. PRACTICE gives me the ability to discern the differences between objects, and usually mentally filter out false data or signals. Knowing the machine and how to use it is 9/10s of the problem solved. The final 10th is ACCURATE interpretation of what is before you.

RADAR is not dead. Money is being poured into research to make it better. It may eventually be part of an electronics suite including newer developments Like AIS etc, but is still the mainstay of every countries defence strategy in the air and on the sea.

It is a little premature to announce its demise. As for typewriters, in countries like India, it still has a secure place in most offices.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Originally Posted by Dockhead

But even the simplest radar set, sees better in rain, than we can.




Rubbish..!!!

hahahahaha

I wouldnt trust many people over the age of 50 to have good eyesight.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

So you use yours at anchor too, eh? I thought I was the only one. And when anchoring. Our small radars are not capable of giving very accurate bearings, but they are extremely accurate for range, and this leads to all kinds of different very useful applications. A radar guard zone is a superior anchor alarm for very many situations -- and the only device which is capable of warning you about another vessel swinging into you.

I like to use radar when picking spot to anchor. I set the VRM to my swing radius, with some clearance, and pick an appropriate spot. I have used this technique on clear days, at night and in the fog.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by jackdale

I like to use radar when picking spot to anchor. I set the VRM to my swing radius, with some clearance, and pick an appropriate spot. I have used this technique on clear days, at night and in the fog.

I sometimes use it when we anchor too. It is usually after my wife has slyly commented about how close we are to another boat. Then I turn on the radar so I can tell her the boat is 90 yards away.