Iridium Next close to completion...

[N3VR L8]

No, I have both.. neither terminal is operating at 700kbps currently and both will require a firmware upgrade to do so - but only after Iridium allows it.

Each terminal serves its purpose, the Thales unit is definitely more attractive to a smaller recreational vessel while the Cobham unit is absolutely perfect as a VSAT backup / out of band management for a much larger commercial vessel.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Sea-TechSystems

Main thing to keep in mind, competitively vs KVH, Inmarsat, etc is that Iridium is 1.) The only satellite network that covers 100% of the earth, 2.) doesn't require moving satellite dishes, it's all solid state, 3.) low earth orbit means lower latency in voice and data, and 4.) doesn't suffer from congestion in busy areas like Panama canal, etc (where KVH and Inmarsat do have those issues.) So Iridium is treating this as a premium service.

Another thing to consider.. If you used a Certus terminal for the same exact data as you used an Iridium Go! for.. Email and Weather, you'd use less than 10MB per month. I have an Iridium Pilot, (132kbps speed) and I get my PredictWind and emails in seconds compared to minutes for an Iridium Go!, but because I use PW and Xgate email just like I would on an Iridium Go! I consume less than 10MB/month and pay less than the Iridium Go $134/month plan. And if I ever need to browse the web, go to a bank website, etc... I can, I just need to be aware of the added cost of doing that, something I have tracked and documented so I know that going to Gmail costs X$, going to Wells Fargo.com costs Y$, uploading a photo to FB costs Z$, placing an order to my inventory system costs B$....

As for the monthly costs for Certus data at 700kbps speeds..

Minimum cost, no data included, to keep the system alive will be about $130/month..

50MB/month included, $380/month

100MB/month included, $670/month

250MB/month (doubled to 500MB for free), $980/month

1GB/month (doubled to 2GB for free), $1440/month

5GB/month, $1780/month

10GB/month, $2580/month

There is also a VSAT backup plan for those with a KVH or similar that need the Iridium as a backup for then the KVH is out of area,etc. That rate is very low in comparison (matching KVH's normal data cost) but only available when used with VSAT.

I highly recommend a data management firewall (either onboard or as an add-on service) to manage the data usage, control what apps can connect via satellite, and how. Things like allowing Whatsapp/Facebook Messenger for chat but blocking attachments, voice/video calling, etc

That's significantly more than KVH Vsat, especially for the smaller data plans. It seems to be anywhere from 7x to 1.5x. I get the "everywhere in the world" benefit, but I think they are still priced way too high to take business away from KVH. For many people, travel through a KVH dark spot is infrequent, to non-existant. And a cheap Go can be used for reduced capability coverage when traveling through any of the holes, if required.


I'm still about a year away from being in the market again, but KVH still seems to have the most compelling offering.

[N3VR L8]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

That's significantly more than KVH Vsat, especially for the smaller data plans. It seems to be anywhere from 7x to 1.5x. I get the "everywhere in the world" benefit, but I think they are still priced way too high to take business away from KVH. For many people, travel through a KVH dark spot is infrequent, to non-existant. And a cheap Go can be used for reduced capability coverage when traveling through any of the holes, if required.


I'm still about a year away from being in the market again, but KVH still seems to have the most compelling offering.

It isnt meant to compete with KVH, KVH is Ku band VSAT solution and a poor one at that. There are plenty of great VSAT alternatives, Iridium Certus is competition for Inmarsat FBB... Nothing more. L-band will never be competition to VSAT, apples to oranges.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by N3VR L8

It isnt meant to compete with KVH, KVH is Ku band VSAT solution and a poor one at that. There are plenty of great VSAT alternatives, Iridium Certus is competition for Inmarsat FBB... Nothing more. L-band will never be competition to VSAT, apples to oranges.

I guess I don't understand. If I look at the cost per GB per month of allowed bandwidth, and speeds are more or less the same, why should I be selecting based on something else. Oh, and this is setting aside the KVH hole in the middle of the pacific, which let's just assume I don't care about because I won't go there.


I will seriously be in the market in probably 9 months, so am genuinely interested in the pros and cons.


By the way, all that you said was gobbledigoop to me and meant absolutely nothing. And I'm a former engineer. Please help me understand.

[svmobert]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I guess I don't understand. If I look at the cost per GB per month of allowed bandwidth, and speeds are more or less the same, why should I be selecting based on something else. Oh, and this is setting aside the KVH hole in the middle of the pacific, which let's just assume I don't care about because I won't go there.


I will seriously be in the market in probably 9 months, so am genuinely interested in the pros and cons.


By the way, all that you said was gobbledigoop to me and meant absolutely nothing. And I'm a former engineer. Please help me understand.

The speeds are quite different.. The smallest KVH dome does up to 5mbps download and 2mbps upload. Iridium Certus is providing 0.7mbps download and 0.3mbps upload on today's hardware (more/faster later). The larger V7HTS provides 10mbps.

Data cost for KVH is much lower, but hardware cost is much higher ($16K minimum, plus warranties, etc).

But KVH has more problems than just holes.. The higher frequency band they operate in (Ka/Ku Band) is more susceptible to rain/weather issues compared with Iridium (L-Band), the hardware is more complex because it has to track directly with the satellite at all times, where Iridium is solid-state, no moving parts, and should last years longer. Inmarsat/KVH domes have to be powered on at all times at sea, even if you aren't using them, because if they don't have power they will bang around and destroy themselves inside the dome. Solid-state does not suffer those issues and consumes less power overall.

Further, overall latency (round trip time) for Iridium NEXT should generally be lower than KVH/Inmarsat due to low-earth-orbit (500miles) vs geostationary orbits (22000 miles).

KVH also has congestion issues in major shipping areas since they have single satellite overhead servicing every vessel in the region. This is why you will see an Iridium device paired with an KVH device on many boats. The KVH device is primary but the system falls back to Iridium (Pilot or Certus) when the KVH satellite is overloaded, or when the vessel is outside the KVH's range.

In any case, as stated above.. Inmarsat Fleet Broadband is the target for Iridium Certus, and Iridium has MANY advantages over Fleet Broadband. KVH is another class of system and Iridium is an excellent complement to KVH.

As far as using a Go! as a backup.. That depends.. If you are paying $17-35K for hardware and investing in the airtime of KVH for the speed and other benefits, you probably aren't going to be happy with email and grib files only when you are outside of KVH coverage... Suddenly any applications you use that require an open Internet connection and/or higher speed (commercial weather, vessel management, tracking, cargo manifests, banking websites, business related systems, etc, etc) stop working entirely.

While the Go! is nice for budget cruising, it's very limited in what it can do (as far as accessing the Internet). Applications must be programmed to understand how to use the Go! to connect, and any other applications will not work

It all comes down to what you need to be able to do, and where. For some, the cost/benefit of Certus is great, for others, it's not.

[svmobert]

All that said, I am working on a project for a cruising boat that has WiFi, Cellular, Iridium, and KVH, all automatically managed by an onboard router with some onboard devices getting access to the KVH and others forced to the Iridium (using the Go! Unlimited data plan) even when the KVH is online. This is not something you can do with the Iridium Go! hardware itself, but there are other options that still support the Go! unlimited plan.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Sea-TechSystems

The speeds are quite different.. The smallest KVH dome does up to 5mbps download and 2mbps upload. Iridium Certus is providing 0.7mbps download and 0.3mbps upload on today's hardware (more/faster later). The larger V7HTS provides 10mbps.

Data cost for KVH is much lower, but hardware cost is much higher ($16K minimum, plus warranties, etc).

But KVH has more problems than just holes.. The higher frequency band they operate in (Ka/Ku Band) is more susceptible to rain/weather issues compared with Iridium (L-Band), the hardware is more complex because it has to track directly with the satellite at all times, where Iridium is solid-state, no moving parts, and should last years longer. Inmarsat/KVH domes have to be powered on at all times at sea, even if you aren't using them, because if they don't have power they will bang around and destroy themselves inside the dome. Solid-state does not suffer those issues and consumes less power overall.

Further, overall latency (round trip time) for Iridium NEXT should generally be lower than KVH/Inmarsat due to low-earth-orbit (500miles) vs geostationary orbits (22000 miles).

KVH also has congestion issues in major shipping areas since they have single satellite overhead servicing every vessel in the region. This is why you will see an Iridium device paired with an KVH device on many boats. The KVH device is primary but the system falls back to Iridium (Pilot or Certus) when the KVH satellite is overloaded, or when the vessel is outside the KVH's range.

In any case, as stated above.. Inmarsat Fleet Broadband is the target for Iridium Certus, and Iridium has MANY advantages over Fleet Broadband. KVH is another class of system and Iridium is an excellent complement to KVH.

As far as using a Go! as a backup.. That depends.. If you are paying $17-35K for hardware and investing in the airtime of KVH for the speed and other benefits, you probably aren't going to be happy with email and grib files only when you are outside of KVH coverage... Suddenly any applications you use that require an open Internet connection and/or higher speed (commercial weather, vessel management, tracking, cargo manifests, banking websites, business related systems, etc, etc) stop working entirely.

While the Go! is nice for budget cruising, it's very limited in what it can do (as far as accessing the Internet). Applications must be programmed to understand how to use the Go! to connect, and any other applications will not work

It all comes down to what you need to be able to do, and where. For some, the cost/benefit of Certus is great, for others, it's not.

Thanks. That's really helpful.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Sea-TechSystems

All that said, I am working on a project for a cruising boat that has WiFi, Cellular, Iridium, and KVH, all automatically managed by an onboard router with some onboard devices getting access to the KVH and others forced to the Iridium (using the Go! Unlimited data plan) even when the KVH is online. This is not something you can do with the Iridium Go! hardware itself, but there are other options that still support the Go! unlimited plan.

That's how I ran my boat network, though the compliment of WAN ports was a little different. It's a good setup, given the different properties of each.

[mikedefieslife]

Been following this thread, as I'm looking to add connectivity to my vessel for when offshore.

The IridiumGO or an Iridium 9555 with redport was going to be my preferred choice, but the Go is too locked down, and the 9555 is still limited to the pitiful 2.4 kbps

My requirements are pretty basic. Grib files, email, whatsapp messaging, and sending/receiving spreadsheets and pdfs.

It's the Whatsapp, and spreadsheets (250KB)/pdfs (48-150KB) (needed time to time for work), that seem to be forcing me to go with Inmarsat BGAN and something like a Cobham Explorer 510. That is unless I'm missing something?

[svmobert]

Actually the pdfs and excel sheets are leas of a problem compared to Whatsapp. If you really want Whatsapp messenger for texting, and will have repeated large attachments, then My recommendation would be to look at either Inmarsat FleetOne or Iridium Pilot/Certus. FleetOne is fully stabilized but hardware cost is still reasonable. You can keep data usage low with a firewall (for whatsapp and fb messenger, imessage, etc i would recommend using a firewall service tied to the airtime service.)

[N3VR L8]

Just to add to that, a land BGAN would not only be tough to keep pointed while at sea, Inmarsat will also shut it down if they notice it logging into the network from offshore (and they will eventually).

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by N3VR L8

Just to add to that, a land BGAN would not only be tough to keep pointed while at sea, Inmarsat will also shut it down if they notice it logging into the network from offshore (and they will eventually).

Ah yes. Just read about that. I didn't realise the BGANs were for land only. I've seen Atlantic rowers use them to stay in touch.

Perhaps an iSathub would work better. It's only for a max of two to three months. Probably only a couple of spreadsheets and pdfs a month, whatsapp text only messages, and gribs via email every 3-5 days.

Iridium Pilot, or Inmarsat Fleet are both a bit too rich for me.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Been following this thread, as I'm looking to add connectivity to my vessel for when offshore.

The IridiumGO or an Iridium 9555 with redport was going to be my preferred choice, but the Go is too locked down, and the 9555 is still limited to the pitiful 2.4 kbps

My requirements are pretty basic. Grib files, email, whatsapp messaging, and sending/receiving spreadsheets and pdfs.

It's the Whatsapp, and spreadsheets (250KB)/pdfs (48-150KB) (needed time to time for work), that seem to be forcing me to go with Inmarsat BGAN and something like a Cobham Explorer 510. That is unless I'm missing something?

Kinda depends on your definition of "time to time" is. My wife needs similar connectivity for work, but we wait till we are in cell range for the file up/down loads. The rest is simple email and can be handled with simple connectivity, Sat or SSB.

[N3VR L8]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Ah yes. Just read about that. I didn't realise the BGANs were for land only. I've seen Atlantic rowers use them to stay in touch.



Perhaps an iSathub would work better. It's only for a max of two to three months. Probably only a couple of spreadsheets and pdfs a month, whatsapp text only messages, and gribs via email every 3-5 days.



Iridium Pilot, or Inmarsat Fleet are both a bit too rich for me.

The isathub will give you the same troubles as a land bgan, geostationary satellite so any pitch/yaw/roll will make it very tough to maintain connectivity.

I'm not sure what part of the world you're in but the FleetOne service has some incredibly affordable plans and the hardware is priced with that in mind. I'm sure the SeaTech fella could provide those details.

Im in the industry as well but when it comes to marine applications my primary focus is on larger VSAT systems, we use these L-band systems for out of band management and I often browse forums such as this for a little extra market insight.. Of course I'm happy to return the favor when Im able to.

[svmobert]

Originally Posted by N3VR L8

The isathub will give you the same troubles as a land bgan, geostationary satellite so any pitch/yaw/roll will make it very tough to maintain connectivity.

I'm not sure what part of the world you're in but the FleetOne service has some incredibly affordable plans and the hardware is priced with that in mind. I'm sure the SeaTech fella could provide those details.

Im in the industry as well but when it comes to marine applications my primary focus is on larger VSAT systems, we use these L-band systems for out of band management and I often browse forums such as this for a little extra market insight.. Of course I'm happy to return the favor when Im able to.

ISatHub will actually be worse than the Explorer 510. The Explorer has a wider antenna field so it's less picky about the satellite angle.

I can't help but wonder why the focus on lan BGAN for a boat. I get that some of the data plans are a bit different, but the Fleet One hardware is about the same cost as the Explorer 510 and the Fleet One is fit for purpose.