Import of ICOM M802 form US to be used in EU waters a good idea?

[CarinaPDX]

The M802 has two antenna jacks: the main one is for the transceiver, which has an internal switch between the transmitter and receiver. This obviously requires an antenna capable of the full transmit power, and must be able to be tuned by the automatic antenna tuner. The second antenna jack is for a second receiver which monitors the DSC channels full time. Since it is only for receive it only needs a long wire - no AT and no SWR concerns. Unless the M802 had an automatic disconnect switch for the DSC antenna then if the two outputs are connected to the same antenna the transmit power would destroy the DSC receiver inputs. Just rig up a long wire to the DSC jack and you should be fine.

I have no experience with the Gam/McKim antenna, but someone likely will. It is rather unusual in that it is usually desirable to separate a radiating element from ground to reduce parasitics, not run closely parallel to a grounded wire. Antennas can be really strange...

I don't think you should be reluctant to add insulators to your backstay if this doesn't end up being appealing.

Greg

[SimonV]

I think you have the same problem we have here in Oz. The icom 802 is non compliant with Australian regs the m801e is. What this means is 125 watts is allowed but 150watts is not. Out of the 1000 + channels a couple are removed or made receive only. The whole issue is irrelevant unless your vessel is required to be in survey to operate. Ships licence to operate SSB/HF requires no more than your application and your acknowledgment that the operator will have the appropriate certification.

[CarinaPDX]

If Oz is anything like the US then use of a noncompliant radio on the marine bands is illegal, and subject to fines. Usually this is seen here when ham radios are used on the marine bands; on rare occasions some unlucky sailors have been fined up to $10k. The chances that a coast guard inspection would reveal that the marine radio was not approved for Oz are vanishingly small, so not a big worry. But I'll bet it is still technically illegal because it does not have the Oz type approval.

Greg

[SimonV]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

If Oz is anything like the US then use of a noncompliant radio on the marine bands is illegal, and subject to fines. Usually this is seen here when ham radios are used on the marine bands; on rare occasions some unlucky sailors have been fined up to $10k. The chances that a coast guard inspection would reveal that the marine radio was not approved for Oz are vanishingly small, so not a big worry. But I'll bet it is still technically illegal because it does not have the Oz type approval.

Greg

Type approval only relates to vessels operating in survey.

[SoonerSailor]

Originally Posted by funk-an-bord.de

When transmitting you will need a tuner to adjust the backstay wire to the wavelength you are sending. Thats a range from 150 m at 2 Mhz to 20 m at 15 MHz.
In other words: without a tuner you would have a resonant antena for one band only.
The Metz antena is tuned by design.
The frequency range is flat from 2 to 30 MHz.
So you dont need a tuner for the DSC receiving input.

The DSC recieve antenna for the M802 is used only for receiving the digital DSC signals, not for transmitting, so it does not have to be "tuned" or resonant at the DSC frequencies. All transmitting by the M802 is via the other antenna, i.e. your backstay or equivalent, using the antenna tuner to match it to the 50 ohm impedance expected by the M802.

The Metz DSC antenna cannot be "tuned" flat from 2 mHz to 30 mHz. That is just physics. You can make an "antenna" which shows a 50 ohm impedance (flat 1:1 SWR) from 2 to 30 mHz by putting a 50 ohm resistor in the base, but then it is little more than a dummy load and is attenuating any signals that would otherwise be presented to the receiver if the resistor were not in place. I have no idea how the Metz DSC receive antenna is actually constructed, btw.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by SimonV

Type approval only relates to vessels operating in survey.

By "in survey" I take it that is similar to our "compulsory equipped" vessels. In the US transmissions on certain bands, including marine SSB, CB, marine VHF, aero VHF must only come from "type accepted" radios; it has nothing to do with whether the radios are required. Hence using a ham radio on marine SSB is illegal regardless of compulsory status. The point is to protect the band from substandard emissions. YMMV

Greg

[SimonV]

Boats in survey are Commercial vessels, vessels used for or in relation to a business or commercial activity.

[Albro359]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Since there seem to be some very knowledgeable persons on this thread. If I install a Gam/Mckim backstay antenna - is that a good option? Seems like a simple solution and easy to install.

Will that antenna also work for DSC?

The Gam antenna is not a good idea as it will couple most of the xmit power into the backstay...unless the backstay is isolated, but then if the backstay is isolated you can use it for the antenna !

[goboatingnow]

There will be no problem using any form of the M80X series in Europe on a lesiure yacht. just be sure to put down the type approved version if applying for a new shops radio license!!

No-one will bother their arse checking, once you have your operators cert.

Move on , nothing to see here.


dave

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Albro359

The Gam antenna is not a good idea as it will couple most of the xmit power into the backstay...unless the backstay is isolated, but then if the backstay is isolated you can use it for the antenna !

How so? The Gam is in reality an antenna that "sits" alongside the backstay. The antenna is not connected to the backstay. Some sort of "power leak"?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by SimonV

Type approval only relates to vessels operating in survey.

Negative.
Type approval doesn't actually exist in it's pure form anymore in Oz but it's first cousin "C tick" does (or used to; I have heard that is also morphed into something else).

However the intent remains the same and so the using of any radio in Oz that is not "C ticked" or older style "Type Approved" remains an offence under "The Radio Communications 1992" no matter how, when or where. The exceptions are emergency use, radios fitted to foreign vessels (providing they are duly approved in their home country) and of course, military.

For those who like inane details, aviation radios if fitted to aircraft are not subject to the above act but if fitted to ground based equipment are. When fitted to aircraft, they are done so under the Aviation Act (of sometime).

Anyway enough thread drift, back to Europe

[funk-an-bord.de]

Originally Posted by carstenb

How so? The Gam is in reality an antenna that "sits" alongside the backstay. The antenna is not connected to the backstay. Some sort of "power leak"?

You are right at DC: there is no connection.
At HF you have a capacitive coupling to the backstay and ground.
When these are isolated from ground on a glass fibre boat,
then it might work
Greetings, Wilhelm

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Negative.
Type approval doesn't actually exist in it's pure form anymore in Oz but it's first cousin "C tick" does (or used to; I have heard that is also morphed into something else).

However the intent remains the same and so the using of any radio in Oz that is not "C ticked" or older style "Type Approved" remains an offence under "The Radio Communications 1992" no matter how, when or where. The exceptions are emergency use, radios fitted to foreign vessels (providing they are duly approved in their home country) and of course, military.

For those who like inane details, aviation radios if fitted to aircraft are not subject to the above act but if fitted to ground based equipment are. When fitted to aircraft, they are done so under the Aviation Act (of sometime).

Anyway enough thread drift, back to Europe

So if I import a vessel into Australia from USA or Europe with a M802 fitted in either Europe or USA it no good here in Aus and I can't get it updated ??

[SimonV]

Originally Posted by downunder

So if I import a vessel into Australia from USA or Europe with a M802 fitted in either Europe or USA it no good here in Aus and I can't get it updated ??

It's not is problem. Out of all the cruisers I know cruising the east coast and pacific with HF, if they don't have a M710 they have M802, except for one with a Kenwood but he is a Kiwi.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by downunder

So if I import a vessel into Australia from USA or Europe with a M802 fitted in either Europe or USA it no good here in Aus and I can't get it updated ??

Originally Posted by SimonV

It's not is problem. Out of all the cruisers I know cruising the east coast and pacific with HF, if they don't have a M710 they have M802, except for one with a Kenwood but he is a Kiwi.

I guess it depends on your definition of "no good here" and "it's not a problem".

I simply say say that the radio will perform (i.e. communicate) very well in the marine HF band and it's use will be in contravention of the Radio Communications Act 1992.

Your call .