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17-02-2009, 13:41
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 244
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Quote:
I'll use my auto pilot in close quarters, but my hand will be very very close to dat 'lil red button
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...unless you are holding that fish...
Quote:
Nothing should have been there to interfere with the compass, but there was.
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Can you give more details so others can learn from your experience?
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24-02-2009, 21:20
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
Boat: 94 Bayliner 2855
Posts: 11
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I don't use an auto pilot and was unaware of these possible problems. I guess it's just one more thing to worry about now when I see a larger vessel approaching.
The BC Ferries incident that took 3 lives happened 12 of August 1985 with the ferry Queen of Cowichan.
Here is a video of something similar. I have no idea of the details for this collision but the sailboat turned 90 degrees in front of this ferry.
__________________
wayne
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25-02-2009, 02:04
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: EU
Boat: EliBit, Evolution 25
Posts: 140
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can this being happened with that british couple on the atlantic since their rudder was stick in hard over...
when sailing in the 1980s on a motor sailor it had a robinson autopilot and indeed that one wasn't very accurate. no way to use it with some swell as the compass was swinging so did the course...
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25-02-2009, 13:41
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#34
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cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,167
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Homocidal autopilot
Deleted as a personal attack
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25-02-2009, 14:10
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Iowa - Sail mostly Bahamas
Boat: Beneteau 32.5
Posts: 2,307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain
Has anyone seen a question on this issue on the safe boaters course ?
Brent
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Most boating safety coursework I've seen emphasizes the importance and legality of keeping watch, which does indeed address the issues of a boat changing course into the path of another vessel, what ever the cause.
Anything on a boat is prone to failure, including a real helmsman.
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25-02-2009, 14:34
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#36
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego
Boat: Passport 47 CC
Posts: 467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Engineer
Two rules we go by (among many) on the vessel that is my Avatar......NO AUTOPILOT Near Bridges and NEVER EVER EVER EVER use a buoy as a waypoint.
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Ok.... I will be the Village Idiot and ask. Why not use a buoy as a waypoint? I did exactly that on my passage to San Diego. I found the main SD buoy, marked it as a waypoint, then had the chartplotter plot a straight course to the buoy.
Take me to task now so I can learn.
Michael
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25-02-2009, 15:30
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sweden
Boat: Between boats
Posts: 474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MV
Ok.... I will be the Village Idiot and ask. Why not use a buoy as a waypoint? I did exactly that on my passage to San Diego. I found the main SD buoy, marked it as a waypoint, then had the chartplotter plot a straight course to the buoy.
Take me to task now so I can learn.
Michael
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I wouldn't say NEVER, but do it with common sense and know the potential risks. A bouy is something that is supposed to be anchored in the middle of the sea, or near or shore, or in a fairway or whereever neede. This means that they aren't always reliable, they might move a bit, they might not be there, instead of marking a safe passage, they might have drifted awyay a bit and you end up on the very reef the bouy was supposed to mark, beleiving that you were safe. That is whay you should never pass too close to a bouy if there is limited space under your keel. It's OK to use a bouy as a waypoint when there is a good margin for error. It's also OK to use the position of a bouy, taken from a chart as a waypoint if, again, there is enough margin for error. Common sense. It's never OK to use the bearing (visual) of a bouy or any other floating object to plot your position on the chart.
/Hampus
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25-02-2009, 15:34
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#38
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֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,136
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Michael, consider the case of a "really big buoy" in particular the Ambrose Lightship, now long replaced by the Ambrose Tower.
Tankers, freighters, pleasure craft have all use these lights as waypoints. And year after year, they routinely hit and sink lightships. And towers.
Yes, a buoy may wander 100' or so as the tide shifts, but there's always someone using it as a mark and then not paying attention and either ramming it, or running it over.
I'll use a buoy as a mark--but only if there's a wide proximity alarm and I know the watch is going to be looking for it, and changing course to stand off from it. I don't want red and green racing stripes, or the bill to replace one of those critters.
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25-02-2009, 15:38
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#39
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego
Boat: Passport 47 CC
Posts: 467
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Damn. Never, ever considered all that when marking the SD buoy on the plotter. Actually thought I stumbled on being clever.
Ok then.
Michael
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25-02-2009, 16:16
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#40
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Long Range Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MV
. Why not use a buoy as a waypoint? Take me to task now so I can learn.
Michael
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Hi Michael,
Your waypoints should be where you are actually going to go.
You are not going over the top of the buoy. You will be going port or starboard of the buoy. So plot the waypoint where you are going to go. Make that decision now: Port or Starboard. You can recheck it closer, but if you have it already planned you will generally be right.
When we have a buoy or reef, rock etc near our course we will add a waypoint (not in the route) which we give a skull and crossbones icon. So that makes it clear its a Stay The Hell Away from marker
Your route wants to be like a roadway or highway where everything is clear.
Where there is 2 markers and you have to go in between put your waypoint right in the middle
If its a buoy and you are putting a waypoint to port or starboard of the buoy put it a regulation distance that you will always use: 100 meters, 500, 1/2 mile, 1nm etc.
Remember your waypoints on your route are all in clear safe deep water. They guide your ship along a pathway of safety.
If you are realllllly tired, and sea sick and dealing with a sail problem etc you then don't have to do any navigation as your route is clear. You just follow it.
At other times - most times - you double and triple and fourple check stuff as you go along.
Mark
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25-02-2009, 16:17
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#41
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CF Adviser Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,942
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Another issue is that if everyone sets their GPS to a buoy, everyone is converging on it from different directions. Collision course! That's the sort of thing that leads to Waypoint Rage!
__________________
Hud
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25-02-2009, 16:27
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#42
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego
Boat: Passport 47 CC
Posts: 467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ
Hi Michael,
Your waypoints should be where you are actually going to go.
You are not going over the top of the buoy. You will be going port or starboard of the buoy. So plot the waypoint where you are going to go. Make that decision now: Port or Starboard. You can recheck it closer, but if you have it already planned you will generally be right.
When we have a buoy or reef, rock etc near our course we will add a waypoint (not in the route) which we give a skull and crossbones icon. So that makes it clear its a Stay The Hell Away from marker
Your route wants to be like a roadway or highway where everything is clear.
Where there is 2 markers and you have to go in between put your waypoint right in the middle
If its a buoy and you are putting a waypoint to port or starboard of the buoy put it a regulation distance that you will always use: 100 meters, 500, 1/2 mile, 1nm etc.
Remember your waypoints on your route are all in clear safe deep water. They guide your ship along a pathway of safety.
If you are realllllly tired, and sea sick and dealing with a sail problem etc you then don't have to do any navigation as your route is clear. You just follow it.
At other times - most times - you double and triple and fourple check stuff as you go along.
Mark
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All I can is Wow. That makes sense. Of course I am not going right over the bouy. And that helps me understand how I came to "cutting the corner" too early and went through the kelp everyone here had warned me about.
I had set the SD buoy about ten hours prior using it to mark the turning point into the channel. As we got closer, I sorta unconsciously opted to cut into the channel sooner -- as you said, I certainly was not going to hit the buoy, so I decided to take it to starboard. Had I had these posts in mind, I would have marked taking the bouy to port so to be safe and would have avoided the kelp I ran into by "winging it" by cutting into the channel sooner. Make sense? Once the bouy was within sight, I really had no plan other than to get into the channel.
And using waypoints to mark what you want to **avoid** is also novel to me and I can see how that can be useful. And I never thought to do that!
Two points do not make a line; they only introduce uncertainty.
This has been extraordinarily useful to me.
Thank-you.
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25-02-2009, 17:00
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 7,141
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We came within ramming range of a boat going the opposite direction.
I was on watch and was amazed at how we kept being on a collision course.
I steered away of course, but it was a little hair raising.
It was in the middle of the night, blowing pretty hard.
It was in the middle of the Sea of Cortez.
It was roughly 40 miles from the nearest land.
So much for following a straight line from San Juanico B.C.S. to San Carlos, Sonora.
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25-02-2009, 17:10
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#44
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Long Range Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MV
I sorta unconsciously opted to cut into the channel sooner -- .
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Thats one of the reasons when in very tight passages I use the autopilot. Many say don't use it when in tight corners, but I find the auto pilot takes away that unconscious desire to turn early.
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25-02-2009, 19:04
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cincinnati, OH (for now)
Boat: custom built 47' wooden trawler yacht
Posts: 71
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I installed an older Benmar autopilot in the Amphora, that someone had given to me. This was a "hunting" autopilot and It worked great, most of the time. However, if you tried to use it around anything large and metal (like barges) it would either turn into them or turn away from them, depending on your course. This same autopilot on two occasions turned the boat 180 degress, in open water with nothing in sight.
I learned not to trust it.
__________________
Quidam (pronounced "key-DAHM"; IPA: /kiːˈdɑːm/) means "a certain one" -or- "a certain thing", "an anonymous passerby" in Classical Latin
*****
One must be constantly on guard against advocates of the "Be reasonable and do it the hard and expensive way" school of thought.
That type of elitist thinking has ballooned the cost of boats, and cruising , far beyond what it need be, and beyond the reach of too many low income cruisers, for no benefit. -- Brent Swain
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