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24-12-2013, 09:08
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tiverton, RI, USA
Boat: ex-Tartan 40
Posts: 619
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
Quote:
Originally Posted by neelie
I too have decided on the Zeus Touch 8 inch and the 4G Radar and AIS plus the wifi option.
Tartansail : What are the range limitations of the 4G radar that you speak of?
Not so sure I'll change my mind but if the range is limited, I may as well install it on a pole on the stern rather than halfway up the mast. Pointless having 30 miles line of sight when you can only see 10 hey?
Merry Christmas.
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I can't explain why, but several sources, including the person recommending B&G, said that Broadband radar isn't as reliable as pulse radar at longer distances and that a fair amount of tweaking is required to get good results beyond 8-10 miles. It's also supposed to be less effective at seeing rain squalls. My main concern is close up navigation in Maine fog so it's a reasonable tradeoff for me. I'm still going to mount the dome on the mast since the setup is already in place.
__________________
- David
S/V Sapphire Tartan 40 #71
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24-12-2013, 09:26
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Seattle
Boat: Wauquiez Centurion 49
Posts: 783
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
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24-12-2013, 09:58
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: On the boat
Boat: Valiant 50
Posts: 509
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
Tartansail - 8 - 10 nm is plenty good enough for me. Like you, I see more value in good short range ability and low(er) power consumption.
I Googled and could find no reference to any unexpected range issues for the 4G Broadband. These guys... B&G 4G Broadband Radar Kit | Technical Marine Support supply specs which seem to concur with the 8 - 10 mile range.
It will be interesting to see if it will be able to "see" channel markers and buoys within a quarter mile or so. If so, this will be most useful.
I'm wondering that if the scanner is mounted too high whether this will have a negative impact on its ultra short range capability? Any ideas?
Caelestis - True enough, but more range usually equals more power consumption.
__________________
The light at the end of the tunnel are no longer the headlights of the oncoming train......yippee
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24-12-2013, 10:10
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Seattle
Boat: Wauquiez Centurion 49
Posts: 783
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
The 4G is 20w powered up, 3.3 on standby.
The 4kw Simrad is 30w.
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24-12-2013, 12:14
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tiverton, RI, USA
Boat: ex-Tartan 40
Posts: 619
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
Quote:
Originally Posted by neelie
Tartansail - 8 - 10 nm is plenty good enough for me. Like you, I see more value in good short range ability and low(er) power consumption.
I Googled and could find no reference to any unexpected range issues for the 4G Broadband. These guys... B&G 4G Broadband Radar Kit | Technical Marine Support supply specs which seem to concur with the 8 - 10 mile range.
It will be interesting to see if it will be able to "see" channel markers and buoys within a quarter mile or so. If so, this will be most useful.
I'm wondering that if the scanner is mounted too high whether this will have a negative impact on its ultra short range capability? Any ideas?
Caelestis - True enough, but more range usually equals more power consumption.
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In this thread, Dockhead reports seeing his own bow from 10 meters up: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ar-103438.html
What ensues is a discussion of vertical and horizontal beam angles which passed over my head with several meters to spare. However, it doesn't appear that mounting on the mast is going to hamper what is seen.
__________________
- David
S/V Sapphire Tartan 40 #71
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24-12-2013, 12:20
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Maine
Boat: Sabre 34-2
Posts: 48
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
We have a 4G on our mast. On a very foggy day in Maine, I was able to see all buoys no problem, and when we got to the mooring field, I could not only see all the moored ships, I could see the empty mooring balls. They were the large variety and it was calm to be fair.
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23-01-2014, 16:26
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sydney
Boat: Hanse 370E
Posts: 5
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
Hi All
I had Simrad instruments for 6 years when the network collapsed. I have been advised that all the hardware will have to be junked as not NMEA2k compatible. So very Angry with Simrad but if I have to replace all, B&G Zeuss seems better system. As this was new just 6 months ago, do any early adopters have doubts or praise for B&G Zeuss? I am curious as I have spent some time searching the net and cannot find any comments supporting or otherwise.
Fred
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23-01-2014, 16:42
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,108
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
Networks just don't "collapse" and take out instrumentation. I don't doubt you have some non-functional instruments, but a "network collapse" just doesn't make any sense - either as a physical event or a reason for your instruments not working.
But that is beside the point
The Zeus has been out for 2-3 years now - it is not a new product. If you want higher-end sailing/racing functionality, your only consumer-level choice is the Zeus. Nothing else even approaches the same ballpark for sailing functionality.
If you search these forums, a few people have written about their experiences with the Zeus.
You do understand that B&G and Simrad are the same company?
Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com
You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
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23-01-2014, 17:21
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sydney
Boat: Hanse 370E
Posts: 5
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
Mark
Thanks for that. More specifically, I have no wind data, I have speed and depth on the combo but not the repeater, the auto pilot and MFD work fine in stand alone but receive no external data. I have been advised that to find and fix the problem is likely to be more costly than replacing all and there is little confidence it won't collapse again. I have tried the trick of resetting the network, unplugging and replugging etc but all to no avail. I have been assured by two marine electricians that it is a network (NMEA0183) problem.
I am from Sydney, Australia and I think the Zeus Touch was only released here about July last year and yes I was aware that B&G and Simrad are the same company.
Thanks again for your help.
Fred
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23-01-2014, 19:39
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: On the boat
Boat: Valiant 50
Posts: 509
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
Muddy... Previously, I have had problems with NMEA 0183 (specifically, the Raymarine equivalent) after lightening strikes, or near strikes.. I seem to recall that someone told me the shielding on 183 is used for data or ground??? (Someone please correct me here).. hence 183 was very susceptible to any sort of induced EMF.
Last week, I installed a Zeus Touch 8, the Go Free Wifi, AIS and a 4G radar. I cannot tell you how it actually works because I have not used it in anger yet.
But I like the way the Ipad can control the MFD via wifi. Its fun sitting below and turning the radar on and off remotely. I also like the intuitive touch screen menus. And to date, every component was a simple plug and play. My fingers are crossed that the NMEA 2000 physical layer will be more robust than its predecessor.
__________________
The light at the end of the tunnel are no longer the headlights of the oncoming train......yippee
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23-01-2014, 19:51
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Morgan Moorings 50
Posts: 1,895
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
How does Furuno's 4kw 24" dome radar compare to Raymarine's?
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23-01-2014, 21:11
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sydney
Boat: Hanse 370E
Posts: 5
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
Neelie thanks for that. I would appreciate if you would let me know of any developments, good or bad.
Thanks again
Fred
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23-01-2014, 21:27
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Annapolis MD
Boat: Building a Max Cruise 44 hybrid electric cat
Posts: 3,194
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
Quote:
Originally Posted by neelie
But I like the way the Ipad can control the MFD via wifi. Its fun sitting below and turning the radar on and off remotely..
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I drive my wife crazy doing that when she is on her night shift and I'm down below checking on her with the iPad. Ours is the Raymarine system (which is okay), and I bought it two years ago because they were first out with wifi and I didn't think Navico was going to have it with their systems for awhile.... it only took a few months.
I will say that we don't use the WiFi as much as I thought we would. Maybe only 4 or 5 times a year.
Matt
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24-01-2014, 07:20
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#29
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,750
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
Quote:
Originally Posted by neelie
Tartansail - 8 - 10 nm is plenty good enough for me. Like you, I see more value in good short range ability and low(er) power consumption.
I Googled and could find no reference to any unexpected range issues for the 4G Broadband. These guys... B&G 4G Broadband Radar Kit | Technical Marine Support supply specs which seem to concur with the 8 - 10 mile range.
It will be interesting to see if it will be able to "see" channel markers and buoys within a quarter mile or so. If so, this will be most useful.
I'm wondering that if the scanner is mounted too high whether this will have a negative impact on its ultra short range capability? Any ideas?
Caelestis - True enough, but more range usually equals more power consumption.
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My experience with 4G radar has been that it is not as much different from good HD regular radar as the hype suggests.
Various reports show the range as about 12 miles. I have actually seen clear images of ships much further -- out to 30 miles or more. Of course the vertical side of a ship is an ideal radar target. But certainly there is plenty of range for my purposes.
The close-up detail shown by 4G radar is wonderful, but I'm not sure it's all that much greater than you get from say the very good Furuno conventional radars. Continuous wave radar doesn't have any "main bang" obscuring the very center of the screen, but query whether that's really all the crucial.
I understand, but cannot verify from experience, that the continuous wave radar (BR24, 3G, 4G) will not show birds (important for fishermen) or storm cells as well as conventional radar will. If either of these is important to you, you might want to think about it.
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24-01-2014, 07:32
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: On the boat
Boat: Valiant 50
Posts: 509
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Re: Furuno, Simrad/B&G or Ray
Always dangerous to quote an advertising brochure!.. But.. they do claim that weather returns are very good. Mind you, dodging cells travelling at 20kts in a boat that does 7 certainly concentrates the mind.
__________________
The light at the end of the tunnel are no longer the headlights of the oncoming train......yippee
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