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Old 12-11-2012, 20:27   #46
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
When NASA use it to purge rocket booster fuel tanks, they don't recover, repurify and recycle it. Because cost accountants decide these things. Helium is CHEAP, for reasons which have NOTHING to do with supply.

And don't get me started on the Large Hadron Collider. It seems they had no plan to recover helium coolant when a single magnet shorted out. Tens of thousands of cubic metres, gone for keeps.

If helium cost what it was worth, instead of the cost of extraction, it might have a fighting chance of lasting until we reached maturity, instead of the frontier mentality "if we don't use it, someone else will"

Do you really want your children's children to inherit the scraps, the stuff no-one wanted, the remnants of what little we didn't squander heedlessly?
I have no control over those that waste helium. I can only control what little helium I have used, which is quite a small amount.

Helium is a limited supply resource. It was always a limited resource. Nothing new is happening here. The people who are wasting it in large quantities, are the people who need it in large quantities. They are the ones who will suffer the most.

You don't have to worry about NASA any more. They have no rocket booster tanks to purge.

Helium is cheap, because it is used for very little. It is the most inert gas that we know of.

You talk about the need for helium.......exactly what need is there?

If you know of that need, maybe you should get those parties interested in the shortage of helium.

James L
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Old 12-11-2012, 20:29   #47
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

If it takes two to lift, then not a toy. The Track-T is almost a toy at 1790 lbs, a hoot to drive.
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Old 12-11-2012, 20:37   #48
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

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Fair warning, if I am in the anchorage, and some bozo is scaring the birds with a stupid toy, I will put a fair amount of effort into shooting it out of the sky.
BTW, since you prefer things quiet and your into kayaks.....

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Old 12-11-2012, 20:41   #49
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

Helium is used in the medical and scientific communities quite a bit, and if liquid nitrogen or hydrogen can't be used, it is not going to be done without enough cheap helium.

Now, we could spend the money and create a fusion power plant which would make helium as a by-product...
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Old 12-11-2012, 22:43   #50
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

I wonder if having a “drone” on board would constitute a security risk in certain nations?
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Old 12-11-2012, 22:47   #51
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

Good question, as mine has two HD cameras.
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Old 12-11-2012, 23:48   #52
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

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Helium is cheap, because it is used for very little.
No, if it were used for very little we would not be facing the entire supply, accumulated over four billion years, disappearing by the middle of this century. There are a number of things we already do for which there is no equivalent substitute: in the future there will be many more.

In most of these, the helium can be recovered, but it doesn't make economic sense to do so now, when it's artificially cheap.

(I don't pretend for a moment that's a good enough reason to release it to the atmosphere, except in cases like welding exotic metals like special alloys used in the building of US naval ships, but I have to accept that's 'the natural order of things' in a free world)

The reason it is cheap and will remain cheap is that that US goverment passed a piece of legislation in the mid nineties requiring that their entire massive stockpile be sold AT A FIXED PRICE (regardless of demand vs supply) to get rid of it all by 2015.

Effectively dumping it on the market. And washing their hands of it.

So of us two, it's me, rather than you, who is in no position to do anything about it.

Except bring it to the attention of people of conscience living in the US; US citizens are the only people who get to lobby or vote for the US goverment, last time I checked.

I know there are people of conscience in the US, and I'm sure a few of them might read this.
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Old 13-11-2012, 05:49   #53
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

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Fair warning, if I am in the anchorage, and some bozo is scaring the birds with a stupid toy, I will put a fair amount of effort into shooting it out of the sky.

BRILLIANT!!! Keep the kids occupied and the birds at bay. I'm ordering two mini-helicopters today. I suspect one could "Park" one on the TV antenna on the masthead and give the birds a "chop" without even having to lift off!
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Old 13-11-2012, 06:24   #54
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

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Fair warning, if I am in the anchorage, and some bozo is scaring the birds with a stupid toy, I will put a fair amount of effort into shooting it out of the sky.
I think I'll stick with a kite. Less likely you'll pull out the trap gun to shoot down the silent kite.

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Old 13-11-2012, 06:27   #55
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

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Good question, as mine has two HD cameras.
I just have a problem flying all those expensive electronics over salt water. Even if you don't have an accident, the salty air will eventually get to the electronics.

I'll stick with simple.

But if you do fly a quadcopter or something similar for cruising use, share the video. It would be cool.

James L
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Old 13-11-2012, 06:30   #56
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

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Thanks, you may have just saved me another $1,000.
Glad to help... Having said that IF you DO want to learn to fly, I highly suggest rcgroups.com, beginner forum.. Lots of helpful info from seasoned pilots. Like most things it's a simple matter of taking baby steps before running ... I'm a self taught pilot and that's the hard way to learn. Takes more steps and they need to be tiny ones so as not to have your helio experience. Buddy boxing with an instructor is much better. But it takes knowing an instructor/experienced pilot willing to and having a buddy box system..I have one. Come to Austin, Tx and I can teach you on one my planes.
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Old 13-11-2012, 06:49   #57
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

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Originally Posted by propellanttech View Post
I just have a problem flying all those expensive electronics over salt water. Even if you don't have an accident, the salty air will eventually get to the electronics.

I'll stick with simple.

But if you do fly a quadcopter or something similar for cruising use, share the video. It would be cool.

James L
Seal all the servos and coat all the electronic circuit card assemblies with Corrosion X, will HELP, but salt water is bad bad stuff as it concerns rc..I fly on a fresh water lake and wouldn't dream of getting any of my planes near salt water..Nor any of my rc sail boats..

A quad copter would need near ZERO wind in order to fly with any hope of success.

There's a forum on rcgroups that discusses them.
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Old 17-11-2012, 07:28   #58
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

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Hmmm, nice machine....but only 25 min flight time? Was hoping on something with a little more endurance/range. Thanks for the link!
To expect a device that needs to be light, yet have batteries to power constantly spinning motors for anything longer than 25 minutes is unrealistic. But so is having a $10,000 machine just to be on a look-out for boats.
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Old 17-11-2012, 08:36   #59
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

After some thought and a lot of shivering on my freezing scaffold, it would seem a tethered lighter-than-air machine would be most practical:

Useful in no-wind when a kite wouldn't fly.

Less chance of loss in high wind; one might want an eye in the sky when it's rough, but if the drone can't overcome the wind to maintain station then it's useless.

With a tether, one can have a constant hardwired connection rather than a wifi...and if you want reasonably high resolution video to have a decent area of effectivenes that means bandwidth, and expense, and perhaps legal problems with authorities.

Maximum altitude...with a tether, less chance of violating altitude limits on drones. Also, having the drone on a leash and held up by it's own bouyancy means you don't have to focus on flying when you might want to concentrate on navigating the boat with the help of the extra info from the drone.

If one could get a supply of helium, ideal. I was musing about altitude control by heating the gas in the envelope with the exhaust from its motor, but with a tethered unit that is no longer a problem. Mind you, just because it's tethered doesn't mean one can't hang a motor on it for use in light winds. Obviously if it has exhaust reheat, no hydrogen. I don't understand the concerns about helium wastage...it is a trace gas in the atmosphere, and letting it out of your cruiserdrone just means the gas goes home. If some greeniewhinie starts bothering me about my drone he is about to have a learning experience....

Next is to think about cameras and configuration. A fisheye lens for search and a zoom/pan/elevate control for investigating areas of interest. Mr Troup's mention of bar crossings come to mind. Hook the feed to a laptop and one can filter the results or save it to disk. In the various discussions about lookouts or collisions and watchkeeping there is always a mention of visible horizon and time-to-contact from maximum detection range. If climbing onto the coachroof greatly increases the vantagepoint just think what an increas in magnitude would do. Some thought about the size of the drone and the handling of launch/retrieval and stabilising the flight for smoother images would be good. Also, the size of the bag would influence the payload....imagine hoisting a radome to 200ft on a platform that doesn't heel. Would a tethered blimp also be useful to extend radio range/sensitivity via a longer aerial? How small could a cheap drone blimp system be made?

Off-the-shelf tech is the way to go...cheep cheep all the way, doesn't mean ineffective. No way am I figuring on $10,000.00 though sky is the limit....

And for the amateur anchorage AAA -buffs...careful, don't start an arms race!
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Old 05-10-2014, 11:23   #60
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Re: Drones for Cruisers

I'm in the process of putting together a parts list for a drone to video kiteboarding.

If anyone else is thinking about building or has built a drone that's marine quality, please post here. There is alot to know and research.

There are 7k drones that are built for this:

But, that's definitely outside my 'could lose it' comfort zone.

So, starting from scratch there are a few ways to DIY. My fav so far is starting w/ the Mariner drone frame. Which can be submerged and is airtight.



The drone will need to monitor altitude. Being airtight internal pressure may be a problem? There are patches that can let air in and keep water out:
- Other - Accessories

After getting this far, I still haven't found the answers to:

My goal is to keep all antenna inside the waterproof casing. There are ceramic antenna for GPS modules. I dont know about any for telemetry / wifi.
Is the pressure patch waterproof, can I put drone underwater and no leaks?
Will a GPS with ceramic antennae work in the enclosed housing?
Is there a waterproof way to run a telemetry antennae / GPS antennae?
Is there room for a pixhawk controller in the mariner frame?
Is there room for a 4000 mAh battery?
Are there ceramic wifi antenna available? Like used on the parrot drone

REQ:
15min flight time
Telemetry data to controller
GPS
Barometer for altitude
Follow me
Return home
GoPro


Waterproof / conformal coating

https://www.google.com/search?q=conf...m=122&ie=UTF-8

MARINER FRAME: $333 - And Multicopters
PACKAGE CONTENT:
1.Frame: Engineering thermo plastic - highly durable, watertight, and allows for water takeoff/landing.
2.Current distributor plate
3.Motors: 4215/650 KV specially treated brushless pancake (x4)
4.ESC: 40A high voltage/temperature ESC (x4)
5.Propellers: 12 Carbon-filled thermo-plastic #1238 (x4)*
6. LED lights: Super strong LEDs with low battery warning
NEEDS
-BATTERY 4200 MAH 45
-LANDING
-CHARGER 50
-CASE 60
-CONTROLLER 70
-APM/GPS/TELEMETRY/ 400 or 249 3drAPM
- CAT FINDER LOC8TOR 100
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