Current state of affairs for HF

[Pizzazz]

Originally Posted by TLSparks

With a brief look at PersonalDSC software, it appears you read about it and are not a user. If you are a user, you have never used real DSC.

I have no interest in flaming anyone on the forum, so I will let this pass. I called you a newbie not to judge your qualifications but for your failure to understand that this is a discussion forum where people share ideas and knowledge and typically do not judge each other based on limited info.

I love HF and enjoy the hobby. I want to emphasize is that there are apps that allow you to add decent DSC capability to any old SSB handset for very little money. I use such apps, both Personal DSC and professional apps (cost a lot more) and suggest that people with old radios give them a try before shelling out thousand of dollars on equipment that they may rarely use.

[Nicor]

The problem with SPOT is that if you push the SOS it will send out your current position and not update it as you carried along with the current. I have thought that if I did use mine in a MOB situation, would turn it off/on every hour or so.

Yes, i know provided i am able to.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Nicor

The problem with SPOT is that if you push the SOS it will send out your current position and not update it as you carried along with the current. I have thought that if I did use mine in a MOB situation, would turn it off/on every hour or so.

Yes, i know provided i am able to.

The problem with SPOT is that its based on GlobalStar...so it may send out nothing at all. In my experience its not very reliable and lacks coverage in many areas where they claim to have it. Same for satt phones on GlobalStar (I was a GlobalStar satt phone customer long before SPOT...their satt phone service sucked too...resulted in a class action law suit).

SPOT works fine is some areas. So is OK if you plan to be in good service areas. But it still has very limited functionality.

By comparison, InReach is awesome! Way better functionality and its Iridium based so full global coverage.

I carry an InReach and two EPIRBs aboard (the old one still works and I just bought new one).

I also have an ICOM 710RT SSB aboard. Good solid radio which has followed me across two boats now.

One thing SSB opens up for you which none of these other comm options do, is participation in nets and direct radio comm with other vessels at a distance. You can get a lot of good info from the nets and many do check ins for vessels underway.

I also have my SSB set up to receive weather FAX automatically so I can get a weather info feed while offshore or away from Internet service.

SSB also gives me yet another comm option. There are plenty of accounts out there of vessels where multiple comm options failed them (IE: Rebel Heart). With VHF (base + 2 handheld), SSB, InReach, 2 x EPIRBs, cell phone...I think Im pretty well covered. 😆

Options are good. A friend of mine just arrived Ft Myers from Isla Mujeres. He spent two days motoring into the wind because the forecast changed and I could not get updated weather routing info to him. His only means of comm, a satt phone, had failed. He did have an EPIRB aboard if things got really bad, but he could have avoided 2 unpleasant days if he had another comm option. I think an ICOM 802 and an InReach are waiting for him in Ft. Myers. 😆

[Nicor]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

The problem with SPOT is that its based on GlobalStar...so it may send out nothing at all. In my experience its not very reliable and lacks coverage in many areas where they claim to have it. Same for satt phones on GlobalStar (I was a GlobalStar satt phone customer long before SPOT...their satt phone service sucked too...resulted in a class action law suit).

SPOT works fine is some areas. So is OK if you plan to be in good service areas. But it still has very limited functionality.

By comparison, InReach is awesome! Way better functionality and its Iridium based so full global coverage.

I carry an InReach and two EPIRBs aboard (the old one still works and I just bought new one).

I also have an ICOM 710RT SSB aboard. Good solid radio which has followed me across two boats now.

One thing SSB opens up for you which none of these other comm options do, is participation in nets and direct radio comm with other vessels at a distance. You can get a lot of good info from the nets and many do check ins for vessels underway.

I also have my SSB set up to receive weather FAX automatically so I can get a weather info feed while offshore or away from Internet service.

SSB also gives me yet another comm option. There are plenty of accounts out there of vessels where multiple comm options failed them (IE: Rebel Heart). With VHF (base + 2 handheld), SSB, InReach, 2 x EPIRBs, cell phone...I think Im pretty well covered. ��

Options are good. A friend of mine just arrived Ft Myers from Isla Mujeres. He spent two days motoring into the wind because the forecast changed and I could not get updated weather routing info to him. His only means of comm, a satt phone, had failed. He did have an EPIRB aboard if things got really bad, but he could have avoided 2 unpleasant days if he had another comm option. I think an ICOM 802 and an InReach are waiting for him in Ft. Myers. ��

I have noticed my SPOT is not that reliable at times.
Just have really got turned off of Garmin items and since Gramin bought InReach.... Better start my rethinking on that.

As far as Sat phone, not really interested in one.

The other items you mentioned very familiar with those.
I use my signalink to receive the weather faxes, also tune in the marine and ham/mm nets that i can pick up at times to just listen to.
Still hoping to at sometime pick up the Norway/Swedish MM net.

I participate in the HAM nets.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

There are plenty of accounts out there of vessels where multiple comm options failed them (IE: Rebel Heart). With VHF (base + 2 handheld), SSB, InReach, 2 x EPIRBs, cell phone...I think Im pretty well covered. 😆

I'm a little confused by this. While making passage, no one would expect VHF or a cell phone to be of any use. I suppose an EPIRB is a communication device in some sense, but I see it as a life safety device only. It is of no use until a decision is made to abandon ship. Rebel Heart only had one usable communications device during their crossing. You have two.

With the declining cost of Iridium phones and service, it would seem prudent to carry one even when HF has been chosen as the primary means of long-distance comms. Nonetheless, a question to consider:

How often do HF rigs fail during passage, in such a way that a talented operator cannot repair them?

Leaving aside the quirks of propagation, is the HF system more reliable than sat systems?

[Nicor]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I'm a little confused by this. While making passage, no one would expect VHF or a cell phone to be of any use. I suppose an EPIRB is a communication device in some sense, but I see it as a life safety device only. It is of no use until a decision is made to abandon ship. Rebel Heart only had one usable communications device during their crossing. You have two.

With the declining cost of Iridium phones and service, it would seem prudent to carry one even when HF has been chosen as the primary means of long-distance comms. Nonetheless, a question to consider:

How often do HF rigs fail during passage, in such a way that a talented operator cannot repair them?

Sat more reliable? All i can go by is one of the motorcycle riders i rode with had a sat phone. It worked most of the time, except real cloudy or in a forest (i know)..
There seems to be some HF band always open. Would except there would be someone that could pick up your signal and relay to appropriate person in an emergency.


Leaving aside the quirks of propagation, is the HF system more reliable than sat systems?

Disregarding any lic required to repair as even an out of spec transmitter can be used in an emergency, all the transceivers built today are with PCBs loaded with ICs. To even go down to board level repair could require equipment that would be just too 'ridiculous' to carry on board.

Take the IC-718 like i have, it is sorta modular, but carrying spare modules would cost more than having a spare radio on board.

Maybe some of simpler stuff, but then you will still items like a suitable soldering/de-soldering station. You could replace some of the simple stuff like T/R relay.

I just think it would be better to carry a spare radio and tuner.

Sat better than HF ?
One of motorcycle riders that i rode with had a Sat phone, it seemed to work well unless there was heavy cloud cover or in a forest (yes, i know).
Always band open on HF where an operator could relay an emergency msg for you.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I'm a little confused by this. While making passage, no one would expect VHF or a cell phone to be of any use. I suppose an EPIRB is a communication device in some sense, but I see it as a life safety device only. It is of no use until a decision is made to abandon ship. Rebel Heart only had one usable communications device during their crossing. You have two.

With the declining cost of Iridium phones and service, it would seem prudent to carry one even when HF has been chosen as the primary means of long-distance comms. Nonetheless, a question to consider:

How often do HF rigs fail during passage, in such a way that a talented operator cannot repair them?

Leaving aside the quirks of propagation, is the HF system more reliable than sat systems?

VHF can be useful well offshore to communicate with other vessels in the area. I like to leave mine on even well offshore, because I have been hailed before WAY offshore. Once aboard a friends boat in route from E Carib to New England way offshore, VHF off, unsuccessfully hailed by a US military vessel doing drills...when we did not answer, they sent an Apache over to check us out...we then turned on VHF and spoke with them...time for a minor course change! Local comm with any rescue attempt will likely be by VHF also. VHF comm with passing ships can be useful too, or just fun...have been hailed by passing ships before...I think just out of curiosity, for a friendly chat.

Cell phone of course not useful well offshore, but with a booster cell signal can be picked up quite a ways out from shore. So, it can be useful for near coastal. Ive used it to do Google Earth overlays on the fly while underway along the Honduran coast for example (dont go that route these days!).

IIRC, Rebel Heart had SSB, Satt Phone, and EPIRB...when the first two options failed them, they reluctantly set off the EPIRB...which fortunately brought in the Calvary. EPIRB is another form of comm, all be it limited and one way, it is of course emergency use only.

I think SSB failure is pretty rare, many cruisers have had their rigs for decades, as have I (Rebel Hearts got wet as I recall). Poor propogation is of course more common. SSB is not more reliable than satt, though Ive had satt phones fail me (and others) on a number of occassions due to device failure, service provider failure (Rebel Heart), or lack of coverage (GlobalStar). So, my perspective is that they are two different options with different modes of failure so a good backup to each other for voice comm. Would not bother me to have both aboard (and I have in the past...satt phone was company paid so I could be conveniently available while sailing and I already had SSB). That was a GlobalStar phone years ago and was so unreliable in some areas that I had to revert to SSB and marine operator service (WLO Radio) for long range voice comms. Between the two I was able to stay in touch most anywhere/any time.

[Nicor]

Here is a thought on 2m VHF, HAM operators can connect to the 2m relay satellites with a hand held beam and a 2m HT. Takes a bit of doing but can be done.

'doing' = have to track sat by hand with the beam and continuous tuning of the HT to make up for doppler affect.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Nicor

Disregarding any lic required to repair as even an out of spec transmitter can be used in an emergency, all the transceivers built today are with PCBs loaded with ICs. To even go down to board level repair could require equipment that would be just too 'ridiculous' to carry on board.

I was alluding to the many HF system problems that are related to power, feedline, and antenna shortcomings, as well as replacement of readily spare-able parts like the microphone.

[Nicor]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I was alluding to the many HF system problems that are related to power, feedline, and antenna shortcomings, as well as replacement of readily spare-able parts like the microphone.

Ok...
Agree with that thought.

Here is a thought to go along with that, if you both marine SSB and HF.
An operator and try to match radios to the same parts.

Like the Icom M802 and Icom IC718 and can both use the same tuner (AT-140) although they are the same control electronically, i think the control cable is wired different between them.

This comes from Icom when asked them.
What the guy said was the control cable was electrically the same and the IC718 could be used with the AT-140.

just a note to add to ur response.

[smac999]

Originally Posted by Nicor

The problem with SPOT is that if you push the SOS it will send out your current position and not update it as you carried along with the current. I have thought that if I did use mine in a MOB situation, would turn it off/on every hour or so.

Yes, i know provided i am able to.

The spot will send a new sos every 5 mins I think untill either the battery dies (~24h), or it is shut off.

[Nicor]

Originally Posted by smac999

The spot will send a new sos every 5 mins I think untill either the battery dies (~24h), or it is shut off.

It does, but from what i read else where, it does not update the geo location.

Which u sure would need if like in the gulf stream in a MOB situation.

[wsmurdoch]

Defender1st Product of the Week!

Defender has the Icom IC-m802 on sale this week.

[TLSparks]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

As an old bush pilot, I can tell you that spot, Garmin inreach etc are not emergency devices anymore than your home security system is.
Yes, they can contact people that should contact people that can help you, but for Gods sake don’t not buy an Epirb because you are relying on a SPOT. People calling people and relaying messages often make mistakes, transpose numbers and such.
First thing, set off the EPIRB, then play with your SPOT or Garmin inreach, can’t hurt and may help.

Totally agree. They fool people with SOS keys etc. there is only one GMDSS system and millions of dollars were spent just figuring it out with billions putting it in place starting clear back with the Titanic sinking. In 1999 the basic system was put into place and has been improved since. It is a shame if cruisers do not utilize the access available to them via DSC VHF, MF, and HF.

However, the GMDSS task force is moving forward to implement linkage to those SOS systems directly. It does make sense and will be a significant plus for our low budget vessels, relative to big ships. It is not the Spot or Sat phone you have now, but the ones that will come out later.
T