US Practice of Deposit with Boat Purchase

[jim767]

I had fewer problems buying a house in Morocco while living in the US than some seem to imagine with this boat purchase/sale.

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by jim767

I had fewer problems buying a house in Morocco while living in the US than some seem to imagine with this boat purchase/sale.

and I had fewer problems buying a camel....ummm sorry, maybe i am not getting the point?

[Kettlewell]

I think the above (bold) will be true in any country.

Could very well be true, but I have never purchased a boat outside of the USA. My sense is that brokers in the UK, and maybe in other places in Europe, tend to be more professional, with greater experience and hopefully better skills, but that is only from inquiries I have made concerning boats over there and from speaking with people in the marine industry.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Before I get back to the OP I have to stick my foot in it and say that the USA does not have a monopoly on ridiculous business practices. How about the whole EU standards thing that basically requires any imported boat to meet a standard it was not designed or built for, irregardless of the cost or impossibility of doing so?

This isn't the same thing , though I understand what you are trying to portray. The reasons the RCD ( recreational craft directive ) extends to foreign imports is that were they exempt the EU would be flooded with cheaper poorly built boats. All it does is bring boats on line with cars and planes.

In fact it's easy to get RCD categorisation. What's not easy is to RCD A or C categories.

Dave

[savoir]

This thread might well become a vital educational tool.

It stands as written proof of the reasons why USA never turned metric.

[Doodles]

I know this is just more thread drift but I gotta ask ... how do you people (European and Aussies) with no checking accounts pay your rent, utility bills, Visa bill, etc.? Now, I got all the modern financial methods ... debit card, online banking, direct deposit, ATM card, credit card ... I got them all and I write very few checks anymore. But how about the grandmother who doesn't have or use a computer and doesn't trust debit cards and such ... how does she manage without a checking account?

[navigator54]

Hi Erik,

I went through this a few years ago. While it is a very alien concept to Australians I initially adopted an "as in Rome" approach and paid the 10% of my offer and was then told the vendor would only accept 100% of sale price. Although I got my 10% deposit back I lost several hundred dollars in fees and the changing exchange rates. The second time was with another broker who made the same request. I pointed out the reasons I had reservations doing that and asked if the offer could be submitted to the vendor anyway. He accepted my reasons and submitted the offer. A bit of to and fro'ing on price and we reached an agreement after which I was happy to sign a sales agreement and transfer a deposit. My advice is that there are lots of boats as well as good brokers out there. I certainly wouldn't make a 10% payment before I had an agreement.

Don

[savoir]

Originally Posted by Doodles

I know this is just more thread drift but I gotta ask ... how do you people (European and Aussies) with no checking accounts pay your rent, utility bills, Visa bill, etc.? Now, I got all the modern financial methods ... debit card, online banking, direct deposit, ATM card, credit card ... I got them all and I write very few checks anymore. But how about the grandmother who doesn't have or use a computer and doesn't trust debit cards and such ... how does she manage without a checking account?

I use internet. I can pay 3 bills in a minute. Old people tend to pay cash at the post office which is a receiving agency for darned near everything, even a few insurance companies.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by savoir

I use internet. I can pay 3 bills in a minute. Old people tend to pay cash at the post office which is a receiving agency for darned near everything, even a few insurance companies.

Well that's what I was wondering. I pay everything online or by some electronic method, but some on here have talked about not having had a checking account for 20+ years. I know they weren't paying online that long ago, so how were they paying bills. I'm all for using the computer but everyone is not so computer savy or they distrust electronic methods. So, are those people stuck with going to the P.O.? in the US a lot of the elderly will only use checks and getting to a P.O. would be more difficult. Of course, things are more spread out here and more rural in areas.

They don't use checks here in Thailand, but its a developing country and not being able to write a check is a PITA sometimes. You have to pay in cash for lots of stuff, like the utility bill. You go to the utility company in person or the 7-11 or some other store and pay it in cash ... PITA!

[Catnut]

It must be a cultural thing. When we bought a boat in the Far East, there was never a question of paying a deposit until the negotiations on the price had been completed and our final offer had been accepted subject to survey. It was the same when we subsequently sold it. If the broker had asked for a 10% deposit before passing on our first offer then we would not have proceeded - there is significant cost in transferring funds, and always the concern that it may prove difficult getting the deposit back if the negotiations don't work out.
Also, before coming across this thread, I had never heard of, or experienced anybody asking for a deposit before agreeing the purchase price of any significant asset. I have bought property in 3 countries in Europe as I moved around, and have never heard of someone being asked for a deposit before the final price was agreed.
I cannot see the benefit to me, as the buyer, to pay a 10% up front before I can find out if the boat is really seriously for sale. But I can see the benefit to both parties in paying a deposit once the final price has been agreed.

[savoir]

I last wrote a check in around 1995. After that I used the post office which is only 2 blocks from home so no big deal. Been banking online for 6 years. I would order roughly one bank check a year and the bank is only 3 blocks away so who cares. Even back in the 80's I used the post office for all the government bills like city tax, state land tax, electricity, water. For about 20 years they have taken everything.

[stillbuilding]

Originally Posted by savoir

I use internet. I can pay 3 bills in a minute. Old people tend to pay cash at the post office which is a receiving agency for darned near everything, even a few insurance companies.

In Australia for the past 15 years at least I have done all business and personal transactions by electronic means. Some banks have their own software and hard connections and others use the internet. Hong Kong the same. Simple really - just give me your account number and I will ship you funds as required. Does not need to be a cheque account. Only time I have had problems are with small-town experience people who think giving their account details is risk-taking behaviour. Muddle-headed of course but they are still around. Paypal is very small time in Australia and almost unknown in Hong Kong. PITA for anyone wanting to buy anything off US Ebay.

In HK can still pay bills at Post Office, 7-11 and other stores and many oldies do this.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by savoir

I last wrote a check in around 1995. After that I used the post office which is only 2 blocks from home so no big deal. Been banking online for 6 years. I would order roughly one bank check a year and the bank is only 3 blocks away so who cares. Even back in the 80's I used the post office for all the government bills like city tax, state land tax, electricity, water. For about 20 years they have taken everything.

O.K., that's a lot like here in Thailand. But first you got to go to the bank or ATM and get the cash and then go to the P.O. or wherever and make the payment. All to avoid writing a check which I can do at home and drop in the mail anytime of day or night. That's seems like more work to me but I'm use to checks.

[s/v Jedi]

(all the links go to Wikipedia)

The last cheque widely used in the EU was the Eurocheque. They quit Jan 1 2002 according to Wikipedia but in practice, nobody did accept it anymore long before that date. The reasons were that it had been obsoleted by newer technology plus the fraud around it etc.

It was replaced by several variants of debit cards with PIN incl. the Maestro card plus several eCash systems that use smartcards like the Chipknip. Many debet cards are a combo-card because they have this chip mounted in them too, for example, in the UK you have Chip And PIN.

Other names for Chipknip from different countries: Proton, Geldkarte, Avant, Danmont, MEP, Minipay, Minicash, Quick, Moneo, Monedero 4B.

This eCash thing is actual cash that you transfer onto the chip at ATM-like machines. Here's one: and this is how the chip looks like on an ABN-AMRO card:

We still have what is a checking account in the US but we call it something like "paying account" when directly translated. Many countries/banks do not allow direct external payments from savings accounts.

Internet banking was widely in use very early in Holland; many years before it got popular in the US, even though it was first started in NYC. Security token devices were used from the start so that fraud or theft of details was never a problem. They look like this: or here a whole bunch from Dutch banks:
Many take a bank card that you swipe through and enter a PIN in addition to punching some numbers while others just ask for a PIN and numbers. These numbers are given on the screen while using online banking. The token device generates a reply that you enter online and grants you access.

Now, for the old ladies that can't use the computer... some government bodies still send a check that the receiver only has to sign and send to their bank. But most banks do not accept these anymore. What they do have is a corner with computer terminals and employees that can assist, explain etc. You see old ladies sitting there doing payments... or guys that have no computer etc.

ciao!
Nick.

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Could very well be true, but I have never purchased a boat outside of the USA. My sense is that brokers in the UK, and maybe in other places in Europe, tend to be more professional, with greater experience and hopefully better skills, but that is only from inquiries I have made concerning boats over there and from speaking with people in the marine industry.

ROFLMAF!! Thank for the great laugh. We have been cruising Turkey and Greece for the past 3 months and have heard all kinds of stories from folks trying both to sell boats and to purchase boats in both countries. Many, many, many complaints about brokers from both purchaser and seller viewpoints.

We sold our previous US Documented sailboat to a European. The sale took place in the British Virgin Islands. We used an attorney to handle the transaction and by-passed using a broker altogether. I don't think there is really any difference between brokers within the USA and those outside the US. Boat brokers are the same worldwide. Just like real estate agents or car salesmen. Some are good and many are not so good.

Judy
S/V BeBe