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Old 24-10-2012, 16:25   #106
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post

I'm into my second cruising boat now, and both times I've gone with option #2. I certainly don't save any money doing it this way -- the boat costs what the boat costs. But by building the boat slowly, I'm not beholden to anyone. I work on my terms (not the "boss' "), and I get to learn all these wonderful skills, like:


So really, the choice is clear ... I think .
I am with you Mike that there are great advantages to knowing the bones of one's boat.

The obvious downside is if the boat crosses the line to become too much of a project. Pitfalls include

- Underestimating the complexity to fix something
- Underestimating the time to fix something
- Underestimating the cost to fix something
- Underestimating the manpower (number of people) needed to fix something

If one expects a 5 year rebuild there is no issue. If one expect a few months and that turns into a few years it can be extremely frustrating.

It is most encouraging that there is pretty much agreement that there are no real "shortcuts" on cost when buying a boat.

This is helpful to newer boaters who may be thinking they can get a project boat and save a ton of money.
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Old 24-10-2012, 20:32   #107
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

I'm too thick headed to give up on my project. I don't really know if I'll ever finish it but will keep working at it. Luckily I have good friends who continually invite me to sail with them and a club where there are many boats I can sail.

One month is not a long time to have something on the market. It took me over a year to sell my last boat which was in very good sailing condition.

I had more sailing opportunities on my very first boat, Catalina 22, due to ease of getting underway than I ever did with bigger boats. A 2 hour sail after work was something I did very often.

There are very many lessons to be learned on this forum and one of the biggest ones is that not everyone is the same kind of sailor or project manager. Some are suited for big projects and some are not. If you want to sail then find a ready to sail boat.

Good luck to you in the sale or completion of your craft.

kind regards,
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Old 24-10-2012, 22:06   #108
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

Salt water in the motor - very undoing but could also happen to a smaller and more expensive boat. I don't think size has much to do with it, just the disheartening cost.
Wish you a good income-making season a fresh start for the next sailing season. As one of my friends said, if you can find the cash why wouldn't you want to spend it on ya boat.
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Old 25-10-2012, 10:37   #109
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

I have the same thoughts about once a day as I work on my retirement home. I bought Sabre Dance in December of 2007, and got the call in February to come pick up the main sail furling gear off the ground. We put her in the water in the spring but left the mast off while the insurance fixed the mainsail furler and I replaced the forestay furler as it was the same make and vintage. By the time we got the mast up it was end of July and the summer doldrums. SD is a heavy boat, the few times we got the sails up, she just sat there with sails flapping, going nowhere. Then the engine barfed up all its oil as the rear seal didn't recover from 5-7 years of sitting in one spot.

Anyway at the time I owned two boats, so SD sat on the hard with nothing being done til last summer when I finally sold off the second boat.

My original intent was to just replace the engine, but i am now stripped to a bare hull, as every system was a mess, and the furniture was built in so that no one could inspect the hull. So it all came out and I'm dealing with rust all over the place.

I suppose if I ever meet the surveyor again I'll be up on murder charges, I suspect he went down and took some photos to illustrate his beautifully written work of fiction, but I figure a proper survey would have saved me about 2/3rds of my purchase price.

Oh well, live and learn. I'm too close to the end of my working life to be able to walk away and buy something else so SD is getting her guts ripped out and hopefully by next June I will have the engine in, basic electrical, and a bunk to sleep on. I can cook in the cockpit on a camp stove while I do the interior later and I'll even sleep on the floor plates if there is no interior.

I'm just about at the end of my tether with respect to work, so I have to get out of there. Right now I'm only working for money to fix up the boat and they all know it.

Have a look at my blog, it will show you what's up.

We do this because we like it. We do this because we like it....

Anyway, I'm sure that once she is back in the water I'll return to being a normal human instead of this half demented frothing at the mouth wreck that I appear to be turning into.
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Old 25-10-2012, 13:36   #110
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

Mark and SabreKai,
I feel your pain. Somewhere in it is a learning experience.
kind regards,
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Old 26-10-2012, 16:16   #111
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
The myth of the cheap boat is kinda like believing in the fable of Santa Claus, or honest politicians . It's nice to hope they are true, but sadly they have no basis in reality.

As someone who has never had a lot of money, I've viewed my boat buying options as either:

#1. Use the bank's money to buy the boat I want now, then slave away at the "job" for many years to pay the bank back.

OR

#2. Buy the bones of the boat I want now, and slave on the boat for many years to build it up to what I want.

I'm into my second cruising boat now, and both times I've gone with option #2. I certainly don't save any money doing it this way -- the boat costs what the boat costs. But by building the boat slowly, I'm not beholden to anyone. I work on my terms (not the "boss' "), and I get to learn all these wonderful skills, like:
  • fibreglassing,
  • diesel mechanic,
  • plumbing
  • electrician
  • rigger
  • etc.
Add to this the joys of:
  • shortening my life from breathing all manner of chemical fumes,
  • learning new yoga moves as I defy physics by squeezing my bulk into impossible spaces and contortions, and
  • getting to know the local Emergency room while they stitch me up from yet another self-inflicted slice or dice.
So really, the choice is clear ... I think .
Same for me and really knowing your boat inside out is such a big reward, and today I just had a surveyor doing the insurance survey and that was an other big reward: He evaluated that my boat is way above similar boats of this age! Yes! Obviously the market value will never reflect that but this erased all frustrations and questioning about doing the right things! Forget the finances, the experience is worth a lot more!!
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Old 26-10-2012, 17:39   #112
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

Unfortunately, I've never known anything but project boats. In the beginning I found cost and time was about 5 times the factor of what I thought it might be. Years later, 1 1/2 times more. Now...I just empty my bank account weekly and call it good.
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Old 26-10-2012, 18:12   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor
Unfortunately, I've never known anything but project boats. In the beginning I found cost and time was about 5 times the factor of what I thought it might be. Years later, 1 1/2 times more. Now...I just empty my bank account weekly and call it good.
Thumb! Why make it hard...just empty the bank account.

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Old 26-10-2012, 18:32   #114
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

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Now...I just empty my bank account weekly and call it good.
Might as well skip the deposit to the account and go straight to the Marine shop to get your supplies.
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Old 26-10-2012, 20:02   #115
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandgilbert99 View Post
Same for me and really knowing your boat inside out is such a big reward, and today I just had a surveyor doing the insurance survey and that was an other big reward: He evaluated that my boat is way above similar boats of this age! Yes! Obviously the market value will never reflect that but this erased all frustrations and questioning about doing the right things! Forget the finances, the experience is worth a lot more!!
Ditto! I had mine surveyed last June and he said the same thing "above yard quality" He valued the boat at $200K+ and I didn't even have the head completely built yet. I've put less then half that $$$ into it and it's better then new.

So dedicating ones time and energy it worth it if one is willing to follow through!
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Old 26-10-2012, 20:43   #116
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

english language lesson;
project boat; (adj., n.) A vessel some dimwitted loser has pulled to pieces, losing or destroying anything valuable in the process, left sitting open to the weather to ruin anything that might subsequently be repairable and then put the remnant up for sale for more than 50 times the cost of dragging the piece of crap to the rubbish tip. Caveat emptor.
To the OP this is not meant to be any reflection on you, its more a rant based on my own bitter experience. Sounds like we may have something in common.
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Old 27-10-2012, 04:10   #117
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

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Have a look at my blog, it will show you what's up.
Ouch!

I got tired just reading your blog .
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Old 27-10-2012, 15:28   #118
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

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Originally Posted by SabreKai View Post

I suppose if I ever meet the surveyor again I'll be up on murder charges, I suspect he went down and took some photos to illustrate his beautifully written work of fiction, but I figure a proper survey would have saved me about 2/3rds of my purchase price.


So sad to hear that.

So many times I have read (here and elsewhere) survey stories.
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Old 27-10-2012, 18:15   #119
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

I am wondering if surveys for purchase purposes are not done differently than surveys for insurance renewals? Would a surveyor really make a deal flop in an area where all brokers know him? I believe it would be a business suicide.
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Old 27-10-2012, 18:26   #120
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

I think you need to spell out what is to be thoroughly checked by the surveyor and what you can do yourself. More thorough means more responsibility, more time and more cost. If you want to get a low cost survey then don't expect the most thorough investigation.
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