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Old 12-08-2011, 10:28   #1
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Where to Get Third Party (Liability) Insurance ?

G'Day all,

Ann and I sail an American flagged boat in the South Pacific area. Increasingly, marinas and boatyards require that one have third party insurance to utilize their facilities. In Australia they want to see at least one million dollars coverage. We have had such coverage from Nautilus in Australia for a couple of years now, but it is only valid in Aussie waters.

We would like to obtain similar coverage that would apply there and also in such places as New Caledonia, Vanuatu, New Zealand and so on.

I have now contacted nearly a dozen brokers, and only one would write such a policy. This was Bluewater, and the coverage was minimal (100K$) at over a thousand dollars a year premium... not a satisfactory deal!

So, I wonder if anyone has successfully negotiated this sort of coverage, and if so, at what cost and with whom?

Thanks for any help offered.

Cheers,

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Old 12-08-2011, 12:49   #2
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Re: Where to Get Third Party (Liability) Insurance ?

May I ask an adjunct question to yours.

What I would like is Third Party (Liability) Insurace sold on a Day by Day basis, as what happens with Car Rental companies.


In other words, I only go to a marina for a day here or there so why pay for 365 days of insurance. I would be vastly better off paying a higher premium for just a day or two's cover.


Mark
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Old 12-08-2011, 13:03   #3
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Re: Where to Get Third Party (Liability) Insurance ?

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
. . . What I would like is Third Party (Liability) Insurace sold on a Day by Day basis, as what happens with Car Rental companies. . . . Mark
That one thing I would bet you will never see in your lifetime. The size of the marine insurance market for private recreational boats it so small that the premium to payout ratio for that idea would be beyond ridiculous. There are millions of cars rented each day around the world. Compare that with the population of cruising sail boats. Remember this is a "capitalistic" world and giving away more than you take in is usually only the purview of governments not businesses/corporations that want to stay around awhile.
- - Until a few years ago liability only marine insurance was not available in the USA, now IMIS and some others are getting some written. And the policies are a fraction of the cost of full hull/comprehensive coverage.
- - If a marine insurance broker had a sense of humor he might say - sure, okay the first day's premium is $1K and the rest of the year is gratis.
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Old 12-08-2011, 13:07   #4
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Re: Where to Get Third Party (Liability) Insurance ?

Jim - Did you find the liability requirement widespread in Australia as though it was somehow nationally mandated?
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Old 12-08-2011, 13:08   #5
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Re: Where to Get Third Party (Liability) Insurance ?

What means "third party" ?

There's me, and the marina, and that's only two parties. To me "third party" means coverage for someone like a mechanic or other "third party" that I've brought in to the boat. Nothing to do with liability insurance in general.
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Old 12-08-2011, 13:20   #6
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Re: Where to Get Third Party (Liability) Insurance ?

Maybe, but in the marine insurance business in the USA, third party means they will pay for damage your boat causes to somebody/thing else. They will not pay for any damage to you or your boat from any source.
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Old 12-08-2011, 13:29   #7
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Re: Where to Get Third Party (Liability) Insurance ?

Here's an idea: Just don't go to places requiring onerous insurance policies. Let the free market send out the message that we're not going to let insurance companies and their legislative lobbyists extort money from us. You only encourage them when you pay some exorbitant insurance premium.
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Old 12-08-2011, 13:41   #8
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Re: Where to Get Third Party (Liability) Insurance ?

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Just don't go to places requiring onerous insurance policies. .
The whole of the EU requires it.
For you to clear in to the EU you need to show proof of insurance for Third Party (Liability) including Pollution Insurance.

and virtually the whole of Australia. We never stopped in a marina there. (Except for my own yacht club)


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The size of the marine insurance market for private recreational boats it so small that the premium to payout ratio for that idea would be beyond ridiculous. .
Charter companies do it, Moorings and Sunsail etc.
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Old 12-08-2011, 13:50   #9
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Re: Where to Get Third Party (Liability) Insurance ?

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Jim - Did you find the liability requirement widespread in Australia as though it was somehow nationally mandated?
G'Day Billy,

Nope, while it is fairly widespread, it does not seem to be mandated. I suspect that the marina's insurers have realized that they can reduce their exposure by making this requirement.

We don't often need marina's, but the occasional slipping for anti fouling or other maintenance is hard to avoid.

And "third party" is Oz-speak for what Yanks call liability insurance.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 12-08-2011, 14:16   #10
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Re: Where to Get Third Party (Liability) Insurance ?

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. . . Charter companies do it, Moorings and Sunsail etc.
Charter companies have year round insurance coverage on all their boats and sometimes will charge you a prorated portion of that coverage. Their boats do not operate "un-covered." They will also occasionally sell you coverage for the deductible that would be due out of your "deposit" if you have an "incident" resulting in boat damage. But like cars, etc. that charge usually stays with the company as extra profit and does not ever go to any insurance company.
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Old 12-08-2011, 14:39   #11
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Re: Where to Get Third Party (Liability) Insurance ?

MarkJ - Can it really be true that a USA sailor arriving anywhere in the EU from the USA is actually required to carry proof of liability insurance? And polution insurance? I have some questions on this:

To what limits is coverage expected?
What are owners paying for this coverage?
In what country are they buying the coverage?
Is the requirement limited to marinas or government docks, or is it "all waters" in the EU?
Have there been problems with coverage not accepted on arrival?
Can it be obtained after inward clearance?
Has anyone else encountered this problem?
Can an EU citizen or two confirm this practice?
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Old 12-08-2011, 14:57   #12
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Re: Where to Get Third Party (Liability) Insurance ?

try these guys

Third Party Boat Insurance - Introduction
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Old 12-08-2011, 15:10   #13
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Re: Where to Get Third Party (Liability) Insurance ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Higgins View Post
MarkJ - Can it really be true that a USA sailor arriving anywhere in the EU from the USA is actually required to carry proof of liability insurance? And polution insurance? I have some questions on this:

To what limits is coverage expected?
What are owners paying for this coverage?
In what country are they buying the coverage?
Is the requirement limited to marinas or government docks, or is it "all waters" in the EU?
Have there been problems with coverage not accepted on arrival?
Can it be obtained after inward clearance?
Has anyone else encountered this problem?
Can an EU citizen or two confirm this practice?
Quote:
The original insurance certificate must be carried and a Greek translation showing third party insurance with the amounts in figures. The minimum amounts are 293,470 euro liability for death or injury by sinking, collision or other cause for crew and third parties, 146,753 euro for damage, 88,041 euro for pollution. It should be noted that if a boat is owned by a company or corporation, it will cause fewer difficulties with the authorities if the name of the company is the same as that of the boat (or nearly so).
Noonsite: Greece
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Old 12-08-2011, 15:13   #14
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Re: Where to Get Third Party (Liability) Insurance ?

Maybe not much use but i get mine here Third Party Only Insurance

Limited to European waters but it might be worth having a chat with them, they're a helpful bunch.
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Old 12-08-2011, 17:03   #15
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Greece is one of the few EU countries that require mandatory insurance. Most other EU countries do not require insurance but most Marinas will not let you enter without at least third party insurance.

Note that pollution insurance is hard to come by.

Dave
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