Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Can you say A pig in a poke ?

Indeed.

[pina.banana]

OK, here is sort of a sum-up of what we've learned so far:

I'd like to thank everyone who posted constructive input here - aside from just stating the obvious. Of course we know that "the idea is crazy" and "buying a boat is stupid in the first place", I've owned and lost the entire value on one boat already. No matter, mine and the crews experience is a completely different discussion that I've had with people with a lot of mileage already.

I posted here because I expected a lot of resistance (why else post in any forum?), and to see if there would come up more aspects that we hadn't considered. I couldn't possibly cover everything in our plan so I understand that it looked very superficial to a lot of people. But, especially, I was hoping for advice on how to handle brokers, surveyors and the initial check-up of the boat and market in our case where we don't have the opportunity to take much time in the market we're looking at. It's an unfortunate position, but not enough to deter us completely.

All in all, it's been very interesting to read, and very sobering. I am an optimist by nature and I absolutely need some devils advocates around me. It's been nice to see that we have already covered most of the major issues brought up here such as money, time, the space and people together, safety etc. However, I have clearly underestimated how hard it would be to get an understanding of the market in the area and the amount of time and work needed on the type of boat we'll get for our money, and I'm glad I found this out now so we at least can start the process of buying earlier.

And yes, I will be going over to at least have a look at some prospective boats, meet our agent etc. The posts of what to check out convinced me that I actually can contribute quite a bit to the assessment myself, as I should be able to cover at least most of the important stuff even though I'm no expert at all.

Big question though: When in the process is it best to go (I can only go once, for maybe 4-5 days). Early, to have prospectives and choose a boat to bid on? Or later, where we'll will trust our broker (sorry guys) to find something, put in a bid where we get a deal that seems good (don't bother flaming us more over that one :-]) and then head over to do the last check up before we sign the deal?
If we go early it's a greater chance we won't get any of boats i'm going to look at - if we do it later we have already bid on a boat that might not be the best we can do but we'll know what we're buying and can start getting repairs and outfitting done.
At any rate, this will let us check up on the job our broker is doing, by the way we're only looking at options where a large broker is selling - not some shady deal that our guy might bring to the table from nowhere.
Another important question I'd love some input on is: What else would be a good use of time there? I'm thinking to go a little boat-to-boat round to ask about the reputation of the brokers involved, references, work and prices, where to get things done and so on.

All in all, we are now are lot more psychologically prepared that we will have to have enough time and money to do more work than we initially thought we could get away with. We have a whole year set aside for the trip so we know we can make it, even if it turns out we get stuck for 2-3 months on Tahiti to do repairs. Additionally, I have read there are pretty good facilities for getting work done in Panama - by the time we get there I am sure new problems will have risen due to the voyage that wouldn't be discovered during the sea-trial. Does anyone have any experience with repairs in this particular corner of the world?

This weekend we had our fourth gathering/meeting which we've been holding regularly to discuss, make sure we're all on the same page and divide labour and research. Even though we've been planning this actively for over a year our time budget for actually buying the boat seems slim. This is because it took a while to settle on a good crew who would be able to make the time for this, and the budget changed with the change in crew. I argue that the composition of people is even more important than the boat you end up with (assuming it's not a wreck). Now we have a great bunch of men and women who have everything in order. All we need is our boat..

Again, thanks for all the input so far!

Erlend
the Pina Banana project

[sloopygirl]

So what kind of work would that usually involve do you think? I mean, if the hull, rigging and engine pass as good condition by the surveyor, I'd think most of the work would lie in fitting the WM, radar and generator as well as probably a new coating. Would that really take more than a month? Much of the interior work we can do ourselves on the go.

Good luck! The comment above tells us that you haven't ever tried to get work done in the Caribbean - getting all this stuff delivered (after you decide what models, etc) and then get someone to install it all. on your timetable. Remember, the Caribbean is on island time - not your short timetable.

[hellosailor]

"(I can only go once, for maybe 4-5 days). "
If your budget can't afford sending over one person for a month to look, supervise, inspect, and bid? I'd suggest you need a bigger budget or a smaller boat. The price of putting up one person in one bed for one month isn't a drop in the bucket compared to a quarter million at risk on the wrong boat. You rent a room, and not at the Hilton.

[ty.gregory]

Originally Posted by Bash

This happens a lot on the forum. Someone proposes a stupid idea and then wants us desperately to agree with him that the idea is not stupid. But I certainly understand the rational behind the request that we at least mention why the idea is stupid.

Here goes, as per your request:

1. Buying a boat, any boat, is stupid.
2. Spending a quarter of a million dollars on a boat is even more stupid.
3. Spending a quarter of a million dollars on a boat you've never seen is stupid beyond belief, especially if it's been in charter.
4. Trusting a boat broker to look after your interests rather than his own interests, especially when the commission on a quarter of a million dollars is at stake, is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Ah Bash, you're always fun to read!

[WebWench]

Well you already have many answers to your original question addressing what could go wrong. At this point you could try to figure out what to do if things go wrong and find out how the rest of your crew would deal with those issues.

If the repairs and or getting everything ready for the trip cost much more than anticipated or the time to get the parts and install them take much longer.....what will you do? Is everyone ok with contributing more money to the project? Could you sail to Florida and get repairs done there? Is there another location that is less costly or quicker. Have some of these things researched ahead of time. Don't put all your eggs in one basket and make sure everyone is on board with the decision making ....who will make the final decision?

What happens if there is a medical emergency? Are you covered for care, assistance or turning back to your last port? What is the decision point and who will call the shots?

Are you all prepared that if some kind of damage occurs that makes the boat a total loss, will you be covered by insurance or can each of you handle the financial loss.

Ask questions on here as to what places are trustworthy if you should require parts or service enroute. Find out where to avoid.

Do some kind of practice as others have suggested with keeping everyone together in close quarters....figure out personalities and people's quirks. Figure out where your weaknesses will be and how you will handle them. Also consider whose personalities are likely to clash.
If you can preempt problems things may be easier....9 personalies in such close quarters, especially when under stress can cause serious confrontations and dangers.

Look into the timing and legal aspects of the trip especially the documentation of the vessel and import into OZ. What if the boat does not sell? what if you have to sell it at a loss?

You are doing the right thing in trying to anticipate and figure out ways to handle all the possibilities.....just don't be so set on the idea of the trip that you overlook things that could turn a great trip into a bad experience for all.

Here's hoping that you end up having a wonderful adventure of a lifetime!

[Rocketman]

After reading almost everything in this post, I would like to know what Pina and crew are trying to achive by risking there money and lives on.

1. Is it the adventure?
2. Is it money? How much money do you all plan to make?
3. If everything goes well, what will all of you have hoped to achive?

I am having a hard time understanding the crunch for time in buying. You have said you only have a few days to buy the boat, and maybe a month to get it ready, but you have a full year to sail it to your destination? Something seems wrong here IMHO.

[bobconnie]

Darn !! All I can say is I would not buy a Ice Cream cone with out seeing it first !! Heck thats why hookers stand on the street so ya see them LOL Never buy site unseen ! If ya do be perpared to get hosed !! thats my 2 cents

[pina.banana]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"(I can only go once, for maybe 4-5 days). "
If your budget can't afford sending over one person for a month to look, supervise, inspect, and bid? I'd suggest you need a bigger budget or a smaller boat. The price of putting up one person in one bed for one month isn't a drop in the bucket compared to a quarter million at risk on the wrong boat. You rent a room, and not at the Hilton.

I know, but the price of staying longer isn't the problem i'm afraid, we're all working up until we leave and there just isn't more time that I can spare. We are currently looking at options that will enable us to possibly close a deal either before or shortly after we arrive, which from the original schedule leaves us december and january to work on the boat along with hired work. I assume we'll lose quite a bit of time on local holidays as well.. If, at that point, the boat isn't properly safe for sailing we won't leave until it is. Some things we believe we could take in panama as well - according to references there are good facilities there for outfitting and repairs.

The broker we're working with has very good references on selling, buying and outfitting boats for customers, so we will put quite a bit of faith in him of course. We've all discussed it and decided we can live with that risk.

[rolandgilbert99]

Originally Posted by Rocketman

After reading almost everything in this post, I would like to know what Pina and crew are trying to achive by risking there money and lives on.

1. Is it the adventure?
2. Is it money? How much money do you all plan to make?
3. If everything goes well, what will all of you have hoped to achive?

I am having a hard time understanding the crunch for time in buying. You have said you only have a few days to buy the boat, and maybe a month to get it ready, but you have a full year to sail it to your destination? Something seems wrong here IMHO.

A very good drug deal maybe?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by rolandgilbert99

A very good drug deal maybe?

If it is that good they wouldn't be onboard personally.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by ty.gregory

Ah Bash, you're always fun to read!

You're only saying that because I haven't handed you a 12-page syllabus this week.

[pina.banana]

Now you can follow our pig in a poke sink

https://www.facebook.com/bluemarble.no

[nagrom snoyl]

well erlend i hope your adventure comes together because after reading a little more through your facebook page and the links form there i can understand what your trying to do retrace childhood footsteps and see what has changed in places since you were there last this will be a very interesting trip and like every trip with a large group of people all it really needs is a good leader everything else will fall into place good luck ..................captian morgan

[barnakiel]

I think it varies with whether you know, or not, what boats are about.

If the buyer is a complete ignorant and the broker/surveyor are competent and honest, then the buyer is better off buying the boat unseen ...

Or am I missing something?

b.