Lloyds no longer writing marine insurance

[Geoff54]

I think a little clarification might help.

Lloyds are still conducting marine insurance.
Lloyds are not underwriters as such, they are an insurance market.
The people who have been refereed to here as "names" are underwriters who sit in "boxes" and represent a syndicate of names.
Some underwriters conduct general insurance and some specialize, e.g. marine, aviation, etc.
Lloyds brokers (nothing like high street insurance brokers) present an insurable risk which may be a single large risk like a supertanker or a portfolio of smaller risks. They go around the underwriters who may agree to take a "line" which is a percentage of the risk.
The names in the syndicate are responsible to pay out claims the extent of their total worth. Although it didn't used to be the case, I believe Lloyds themselves now guarantee to honor all claims, but only after the names have paid everything they possibly can.
Some companies include Lloyds in their name if they then place the risk at Lloyds (e.g. H.P. Motor Policies at Lloyds)

BTW, many insurance companies reduce their risk by reinsuring part of it through Lloyds.

In your case, I suspect that someone who used to write policies to consolidate into portfolios to insure via Lloyds is no longer doing so.

Time to go shopping, I'm afraid.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Polux

I don't think that if you insure some property with Allianz Lloyds will have anything to do with it. Allianz is not a broker firm but one of the big international insurance companies. They don't intermediate for Lloyds.

Lloyds are underwriters, not insurance retailers. Most if not all insurers have arrangements with Lloyds to underwrite a portion of their risk.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Geoff54

I think a little clarification might help.

Lloyds are still conducting marine insurance.
Lloyds are not underwriters as such, they are an insurance market.
The people who have been refereed to here as "names" are underwriters who sit in "boxes" and represent a syndicate of names.
Some underwriters conduct general insurance and some specialize, e.g. marine, aviation, etc.
Lloyds brokers (nothing like high street insurance brokers) present an insurable risk which may be a single large risk like a supertanker or a portfolio of smaller risks. They go around the underwriters who may agree to take a "line" which is a percentage of the risk.
The names in the syndicate are responsible to pay out claims the extent of their total worth. Although it didn't used to be the case, I believe Lloyds themselves now guarantee to honor all claims, but only after the names have paid everything they possibly can.
Some companies include Lloyds in their name if they then place the risk at Lloyds (e.g. H.P. Motor Policies at Lloyds)

BTW, many insurance companies reduce their risk by reinsuring part of it through Lloyds.

In your case, I suspect that someone who used to write policies to consolidate into portfolios to insure via Lloyds is no longer doing so.

Time to go shopping, I'm afraid.

It makes sense. So they are a lot more than underwriters. That's what I was not understanding: who comes with the money in case of sinister, who offers the warranties and who would pay the claims.

You answered that. thanks!

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Polux

It makes sense. So they are a lot more than underwriters. That's what I was not understanding: who comes with the money in case of sinister, who offers the warranties and who would pay the claims.

You answered that. thanks!

'Lloyds of London' is the body that makes the rules that the brokers and underwriters have to play by.. similar to the relationship between the London Stock Exchange and the stockbrokers.

Up until the 1980's the 'names' had unlimited liability.... a bit of a drama back then led to a change. The established 'names' let a swag of new players join in... a rather prestigous thing.. being a name...

The established players then dumped a load of dodgy risk on the newbies... over 1000 of the new names lost their shirts.....

Hence the new rules...

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Polux

I don't think that if you insure some property with Allianz Lloyds will have anything to do with it. Allianz is not a broker firm but one of the big international insurance companies. They don't intermediate for Lloyds.

Allianz sit on both sides of the fence at Lloyds... both Home and Legacy - a broker- and Barbican - underwriters - are Allianz subsidiaries

'1. Home & Legacy Insurance Services Limited is an independent mid and high net worth insurance provider offering high quality insurance policies that are underwritten by a choice of five of the UK's leading insurers at exclusively negotiated rates. The company is a wholly owned subsidiary of Allianz Holdings plc.

2. Formed in 2007, Barbican Group Holdings is an insurance group writing business predominantly through its syndicate at Lloyd’s. It also has a non-Lloyd’s financial solutions business based in Guernsey which offers commercial insurance solutions to the Channel Islands. Barbican Syndicate 1955 at Lloyd’s has a stamp capacity of £210m for the 2013 year of account and underwrites cyber liability, financial and professional lines, healthcare liability, international casualty reinsurance, marine insurance, marine reinsurance, North American casualty reinsurance, property, property reinsurance and corporate, middle market and scheme/affinity group clients in the UK and Ireland.

For more information contact:

Amanda Biles, communications officer, Allianz Insurance plc'

BARBICAN SYNDICATE 1955 AT LLOYD’S TO JOIN HOME & LEGACY HOUSEHOLD... - Allianz Insurance plc

[Geoff54]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Up until the 1980's the 'names' had unlimited liability.... a bit of a drama back then led to a change. The established 'names' let a swag of new players join in... a rather prestigous thing.. being a name...

The established players then dumped a load of dodgy risk on the newbies... over 1000 of the new names lost their shirts.....

Hence the new rules...

I think that this a bit of a stretch.

I worked for a couple of different Lloyd's underwriting companies in the 70s and 80s but I was long gone before the scandal so I have no direct knowledge. This is much too complicated a subject for a forum post but there were historical claims where U.S. courts awarded huge punitive damages years later, the classic one was for asbestos related injuries. There were claims of recruit to dilute which, if I recall correctly, were thrown out by the courts. There was a lot of conflicting accusations and evidence.

What is true is that a number of syndicates failed and Lloyd's tightened up the rules and the enforcement of the rules. I believe that is when they agreed to guarantee claims would be paid in order to shore up confidence in the market.

This is all from memory from news reports at the time and talking to old colleagues. Please correct me if you know different.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Geoff54

I think that this a bit of a stretch.

I worked for a couple of different Lloyd's underwriting companies in the 70s and 80s but I was long gone before the scandal so I have no direct knowledge. This is much too complicated a subject for a forum post but there were historical claims where U.S. courts awarded huge punitive damages years later, the classic one was for asbestos related injuries. There were claims of recruit to dilute which, if I recall correctly, were thrown out by the courts. There were a lot of conflicting accusations and evidence.

What is true is that a number of syndicates failed and Lloyd's tightened up the rules and the enforcement of the rules. I believe that is when they agreed to guarantee claims would be paid in order to shore up confidence in the market.

This is all from memory from news reports at the time and talking to old colleagues. Please correct me if you know different.

I bow before your superior knowledge of what went on.

What I recall was that an ex-PM of Australia was one of the new names so quite a bit of coverage in Oz at the time. As I understand it, the new chums found themselves in the syndicates with most exposure to the asbestos claims etc.

I just googled 'lloyds names bankrupt' and there is a heap of info out there..such as
Rising tide of bankruptcy engulfing Lloyd's Names - NZ Herald

[Privleoplag]

1stly what I called my broker was my insurance intermediary.. and if I had a complaint, I should contact them 1st.

2ndly, if I still had a complaint.. take it first to intermediary, next to Dual in London. (maybe this is who is no longer providing marine insurance?)

and 3rdly - If I still had a complaint, take it to the top dog, Lloyds, and try to resolve it there, so, did I mistakingly mistake the top dog as being the one that is no longer doing Marine insurance. Could that be.. I can't believe it. Not me, not a mistake like that. Uffff.

[Geoff54]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I bow before your superior knowledge of what went on.

What I recall was that an ex-PM of Australia was one of the new names so quite a bit of coverage in Oz at the time. As I understand it, the new chums found themselves in the syndicates with most exposure to the asbestos claims etc.

I just googled 'lloyds names bankrupt' and there is a heap of info out there..such as
Rising tide of bankruptcy engulfing Lloyd's Names - NZ Herald

Hey, it was along time ago and most of my information is second hand anyway. I just had an interest because I used to be there and one of the companies that I worked for would actually sponsor and financially underwrite loyal, long time employees to become names. I was interested how people I knew had fared.

Lloyds had recognized that the market was under capitalized and had agreed to admit companies and foreign citizens to enlarge to pool and spread the risk. Shortly afterwards the large historical claims started. There was certainly a degree of incompentence and mismanagement but who knew what and when is the at the crux of the argument. I understand that the traditional names are gradually fading away and being replaced by companies and other entities. As with most things like this, the water is muddy and we will probably never find out the full truth.

I'm sorry that we drifted off the subject... let's go sailing

[Pelagic]

On large Insurance policies for Super Yachts (hull insurance over €70m) the trick is to limit and identify the number of "Names" who would underwrite the policy....as so many in the 90's were new and without financial depth or commitment.

I found that it was not easy to achieve this with Loyds, so generally insured via the large US companies, who seemed to provide better security at a slightly higher premium.

One year a UK sydicate approached a group of SY Owners with a much reduced premium.... Despite my objections, they went with it.

5 months later they folded and over 70 super yachts had to reinsure.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Polux

I don't think that if you insure some property with Allianz Lloyds will have anything to do with it. Allianz is not a broker firm but one of the big international insurance companies. They don't intermediate for Lloyds.

They will do. Allianz will insure the risk. Perhaps not individually, but bundled up together.

There are hardly any Lloyds members anymore with unlimited liability. The law changed many years ago, and new members were not permitted. Now the 'members' are mostly large corporations and funds. Shame.

[const0022]

Hi, My Trawler yacht (Uk registered)was based in Asia for 7 years and I used the US Company Gowie who specialise in insuring trawlers. However, prior to the end of my policy they advised that they were no longer able to offer insurance due to their large losses in the Caribean. Nevertheless, I persevered with continuing to ask them for a quote as I had found them to be a good company. When they subsequently quoted they withdrew my no claims bonus which made my policy far more expensive. As I had moved the boat to Turkey in April 2017(by ship from Singapore to Fethie) I therefore cast around for new quotes. I found that the Uk company Admiral were able to provide a good, competitive quotation and were extremly helpful. I'd suggest therefore you try if you are in Europe them instead of battling with your old company.

[Krabimike]

I am in Thailand.
If any one has info on insurance or broker info I would appreciate the share.
I Have had insurance with a broker since i purchased my boat .
They do not five coverage past the Maldives.
In August i contacted a broker for Top sail for insurance. My sail plan was Phuket, Maldives, Seychelles, Madagascar & South Africa. They aprroved and gave me a price.
I then decided to stay in Thailand for another year.
Last month we decided to cancel our current policy. Contact broker for Top Sail and purchase. Once again they approved.
I had a question as to the wording in the policy and asked. ( what does Minimum 90% premium earned mean?)
I received a email back stating they changed their minds and they will not cover. I asked why?
This was their reply.

Dear Mike,

Please accept my apologies for the confusion.
*It would appear to be the case that as there have been various enquiries and quotes provided, insurers no longer feel that they wish to offer terms of insurance for your vessel.

*Unfortunately, this is the only market we have access to to write US business so we are unable to assist further.

I am very sorry for any inconvenience caused.

[jonarck]

ORM just sent us a quote from Lloyd's of London for our Leopard 44 catamaran.

[callistov42]

I have been informed of the same thing. Lloyd’s is paying for the damage to my boat in hurricane Irma (through Hiscox) but they are not doing renewals.
We keep Callisto in the Caribbean year round (St Martin). Any suggestions for good brokers, agents to write my new policy? Who will cover a cruising boat in the Caribbean? My policy expires at the end of the month! I have a new, “after repairs” survey being done now.