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Old 05-09-2008, 01:38   #1
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get a new survey??

I am looking at a boat this sunday and it had a survey done buy a previous buyer in Feb. that came out very well. The seller provided me a copy of it.

It came out very well. Should I still get it hauled out and have another survey done. The boat is in excellent shape but I am not expert in these matters.

Also is there anyone very knowledgeable in this stuff that lives near Mission Bay San diego that might want to help take a look at a boat with me Sunday???

Thank you

Thank you
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:26   #2
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Never take a survey from a seller or broker, no matter how nice they are.

*Always* get your own new survey.

I'd love to do it if you were an East Coaster...


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Originally Posted by GZgunner View Post
I am looking at a boat this sunday and it had a survey done buy a previous buyer in Feb. that came out very well. The seller provided me a copy of it.

It came out very well. Should I still get it hauled out and have another survey done. The boat is in excellent shape but I am not expert in these matters.

Also is there anyone very knowledgeable in this stuff that lives near Mission Bay San diego that might want to help take a look at a boat with me Sunday???

Thank you

Thank you
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:16   #3
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I am looking at a boat this Sunday and it had a survey done buy a previous buyer in Feb. that came out very well. The seller provided me a copy of it.
It's already pretty old. I doubt your insurance company would accept a survey 6 months old. Things change over 6 months and while I would not throw it away, I would still get your own done. It's doubtful that it was altered or forged but the survey needs to be written for you since you are the one buying it. You never save money not doing a survey. Even a clean boat will have things about it you should know. The surveyor can tell you things in the survey that may not be in the report.

I've always learned a lot during the survey and it is not always bad stuff. 6 months after we bought our boat some of the things didn't work that used to work. If you have enough minor problems the surveyor will earn his pay.
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:55   #4
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I know that surveys are required by insurance companies, etc., but I must say that I have yet to meet a surveyor who was as thorough as was needed or, at least, expected. If you're counting on a surveyor to find the problems a boat might have... good luck!! I find it a very rare thing indeed that the survey identifies any problems that weren't already self-evident. But that might just be me not appreciating my own experience and knowledge. A newbie might learn alot.

At any rate, good luck with your survey.

Steve
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:24   #5
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I know that surveys are required by insurance companies, etc., but I must say that I have yet to meet a surveyor who was as thorough as was needed or, at least, expected. If you're counting on a surveyor to find the problems a boat might have... good luck!! I find it a very rare thing indeed that the survey identifies any problems that weren't already self-evident. But that might just be me not appreciating my own experience and knowledge. A newbie might learn alot.

At any rate, good luck with your survey.

Steve
Actually, Steve... I agree.

I have never met a surveyor who has picked up more problems than I have myself in a boat I was buying. In my experience as well, they have missed several items I have caught.

Which leads me to a more interesting comment:

Why is NAMS/SAMS certification so important? I have only used accredited surveyors from these organizations and have had the same experiences you have.

Reminds me a lot of the "Microsoft Certified Professionals" I used to avoid hiring when I had a software company. In that situation, I found the "certified" developers to often be lacking a good education, lacking real life experience and most importantly, to be lacking the passion - playing with computers since they were children like real developers have. More often than not, they were people who took some voc tech classes and got "certified" rather than people who lived and breathed computers.

It's hard to tell if someone is going to be good from a certification IMO, and the certification tends to muddle the quality of the people who are certified or accredited.
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Old 05-09-2008, 07:52   #6
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I agree with you two, from my experience with surveyors. An experienced yachtsman can usually do just as good a job, and usually more thorough. But for someone inexperienced, it is better he has a new one, especially if the insurance company requires one anyway. If a new survey still finds the same faults it would indicate the owner is not much bothered about his boat and just wants to get rid. It the faults have been rectified, then that tells you something better. If the new surveyor finds more faults, you might have extra negotiating power, or walk away.
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:21   #7
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Originally Posted by GZgunner View Post
I am looking at a boat this sunday and it had a survey done buy a previous buyer in Feb. that came out very well. The seller provided me a copy of it.

It came out very well. Should I still get it hauled out and have another survey done.
Even if I would, I would never recomend someone else to do that. Not because I know more than someone else, but just ain't a call that is easy to do for someone else.

Quote:
but I am not expert in these matters.
But I think that is your answer.

Although, as already said, no guarantee that Surveyor no.2 will pick up everything - but having your own survey means not kicking yourself for having not done so, plus useful to compare the results. Some things may be different for very good reasons - in another 6 months things can go wrong - but a good boat does not usually become a bad one that quick (unless the keel drops off ).....but if your survey is finding it hard to reconcile to the old survey, I would take it as a sign to walk away - cos' someone is not being straight and what else is their hidden?

BTW, in this part of the World Surveyors also do what is termed "an insurance survey" - not to say that it is less thorough than a purchase survey, but it is looking at the boat from a different angle. and of course the person paying for the survey is wanting a different result (zero faults)from a prospective purchasor (lots of bargaining points!).......he who pays the piper etc etc


FWIW I always consider even an old Survey (and preferably also a few dating back over many many years) as a very useful tool.
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Old 05-09-2008, 20:43   #8
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Gotta agree with everything above and add: "two opinions are better than one".

Just thinking aloud - who surveys a Surveyor's boat?
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Old 06-09-2008, 08:30   #9
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Survey Frequency... while I would not care to trust a survey I was not on hand to witness and would want an original one.... both insurance companies I have dealt with may require a new one every 3 years not 6 months. An exception is made if it has had a grounding and even then spot checks are often acceptable on the critical components. They also accept one that is a year old as long as it was an out of the water survey on the initial policy.
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Old 08-09-2008, 11:06   #10
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I would have to say that you will need another survey. If you are planning to finance the lender will only accept a survey issued to YOU by the surveyor. In todays conditions anything can be doctored..Purchasing a boat is a big purchase and a survey is a small fee for peace of mind and that may save you a ton of money in the future.
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Old 08-09-2008, 12:21   #11
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If you plan to either finance or insure the boat you will have to have a survey in YOUR name for the bank to finance or for insurance. They won't accept another buyers survey in most cases.
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Old 08-09-2008, 12:40   #12
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Another option, which I did when buying our boat, was contact the surveyor who did the first survey. Try and get a third party opinion of the surveyor. Do they have a good reputation in the area, or are they the broker's tool? I decided I could trust the surveyor, and got a discounted rate for him to do a second, abreviated survey with me onboard and written up for me. A lot easier for the surveyor because he's got most of the information already written up in the computer. In my case, the surveys were about 4 months apart.
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:59   #13
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If you want to insure the boat, the survey must be done on your behalf, not for the previous owner.

Also, do not get an "insurance survey", get a hauled Condition and Valuation survey. Most insurance companies do not accept the so called "insurance survey" which is nothing more than a quick list of equipment. A Condition & Valuation survey addresses the condition of all the major systems of the boat, its compliance with safety regulations, and assigns a value to the vessel. It includes a recommendations page.

Surveyors: I've reviewed hundreds, if not thousands of surveys. Some are really excellent, others are not worth the paper they are written on. The SAMs & NAMs organizations work with their members to standardize the format and guarantee a good quality product. However, we're dealing with human nature, which is full of variables, so the best thing to do is to ask your prospective surveyor for a sample that they have done for another client. As a very crude starting point, if it's less than 5 pages with single word evaluations in a checklist like format, find a different surveyor. Most of the better surveys I have seen run 15 to 20 pages. Plan on being present when the boat is surveyed. The surveyor may tell you things that they might not be comfortable putting down on paper.

Age of the Survey: different companies have different standards- some will accept a survey up to 3 years old, others require that it be less than one year old.
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