Cruising Under the Insurance Radar

[Mimsy]

If you don't want to carry insurance, you should have purchased a boat you could pay cash for. The finance company trusted you enough to loan you money to buy a boat. I think it is in extremely poor taste for you not to honor the contract that you agreed to and to protect the lending companies assets. Technically, it is not your boat until it is paid for so as you have use of it, you should take care of it and carrying insurance is part and parcel of taking care of it.

Wait a minute. I just remembered the housing issue which has caused the economy to tank for everyone. Screw the big company! Skip your insurance! Financial responsibilty and honoring your agreements is for suckers! (this last paragraph is tongue in cheek, but you can maybe see the point here )

[kb79]

Originally Posted by Mimsy

If you don't want to carry insurance, you should have purchased a boat you could pay cash for. The finance company trusted you enough to loan you money to buy a boat. I think it is in extremely poor taste for you not to honor the contract that you agreed to and to protect the lending companies assets. Technically, it is not your boat until it is paid for so as you have use of it, you should take care of it and carrying insurance is part and parcel of taking care of it.

Wait a minute. I just remembered the housing issue which has caused the economy to tank for everyone. Screw the big company! Skip your insurance! Financial responsibilty and honoring your agreements is for suckers! (this last paragraph is tongue in cheek, but you can maybe see the point here )

the criticism is fair enough - i see your point and understand it.

i'm not considering any failure to pay off the loan however. if the boat sinks, i have enough money to pay cash for the remaining balance, which i would. so while there's validity to your point, i'm comfortable with the moral position i'm taking

[YOGAO]

Originally Posted by kb79

because my existing policy is only local (where i won't be)

Aren't you missing the point then?

Fair Winds,
Mike

[Roaring Girl]

If the policy is only local change, in agreement with the finance company.

In the EU, particularly France, Spain Portugal, you will be asked for your insurance papers in any marina you visit. You will visit marinas sometimes. That document must, in Spain, france, Greece, include a translated certificate of coverage. Customs are not interested at all. Marinas are.

[S&S]

If you are unwilling to carry liability insurance (and it appears you are-unless required ) you are being @#&%*#@! irresponsible.

(I edited out what I really think to save the moderator's time)

[tager]

Insurance is a scam. I stand by that belief. I have had enough interaction with slimeball insurance agents when it comes to vehicles with wheels, I don't need that on the water.

They will help you out only if it is in their financial and professional interest. If helping you doesn't help them, don't think that they will be your advocate. They will go to great lengths to avoid coughing up dough in the event of any claim.

Insurance is a leech industry. By definition it is a bad investment. How hard is that to see? If it were a good investment, insurance companies would be broke as a joke.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by S&S

If you are unwilling to carry liability insurance (and it appears you are-unless required ) you are being @#&%*#@! irresponsible.

Perhaps if insurance companies did not go to the lengths they go to avoid paying on liability claims, many people would feel more inclined to give them some respect.

Some years ago I was on a non-profit board that had Directors and Officer liability insurance, and I was involved in a claim that clearly was insured... they denied, denied and stalled the claim for 18 months. I guess the premise is that a delay is almost as good as not paying at all. They paid eventually, but it caused a lot of concern for the 18 months.

So, now, with exception of car and house, I go un-insured in my business. Have fun trying to get assets... it has none, as it is all secured to a captive finance company via a third holding company. One only needs to get stung once, and one finds ways around that.

And yes, it is lawyer and tax approved... I made sure of that.

[S&S]

Originally Posted by avb3

Perhaps if insurance companies did not go to the lengths they go to avoid paying on liability claims, many people would feel more inclined to give them some respect.

Some years ago I was on a non-profit board that had Directors and Officer liability insurance, and I was involved in a claim that clearly was insured... they denied, denied and stalled the claim for 18 months. I guess the premise is that a delay is almost as good as not paying at all. They paid eventually, but it caused a lot of concern for the 18 months.

So, now, with exception of car and house, I go un-insured in my business. Have fun trying to get assets... it has none, as it is all secured to a captive finance company via a third holding company. One only needs to get stung once, and one finds ways around that.

And yes, it is lawyer and tax approved... I made sure of that.

Fine for your business, but who's going to pay for repairs when some uninsured $#!& without a pot to p!$$ in t-bones my,or yours for that matter, boat?

[Mimsy]

You are missing the point avb3. It matters not if insurance companies are jerks or not, the financial institution which lent the OP the money for the boat required full coverage for the duration of the loan. The OP agreed to those terms. If he does not like the terms, pay off the lender and carry only liabilty as required by marinas.

[John A]

Originally Posted by kb79

because my existing policy is only local (where i won't be)

Most US insurance policies require a dry survey from time to time, many require the survey to be done in US waters. Read the fine print.

This is one of the catch-22's when you're shareing ownership of your boat with a lender and decide to go cruising.

Most offshore insurance requires at least a crew of three adults.

Singlehandler's, unless they chose to pay an outrages premium, have a worthless policy, because they don't have "proper" crew.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by S&S

Fine for your business, but who's going to pay for repairs when some uninsured $#!& without a pot to p!$$ in t-bones my,or yours for that matter, boat?

And this has happened how often?

Again, my experience, and many others, with insurance companies is that they are loath to pay liability claims, even when it is clear as to what happened.

Guess that is why there are so many lawyers around that make a very healthy living on liability claims?

Try getting a claim on a house that was destroyed by fire. The insurance companies will screw around for years claiming arson investigation, even if fire department and police advise no such thing. Happened in my neighborhood...it took 4 years for the unsightly mess to be cleaned up. The authorities had ruled it an accident within 3 weeks.

So, would you rather I run into you and agree to pay, or would you rather have the insurance company claim it was "an act of god" and not covered because the wind shifted while we were at anchor?

[NCountry]

Dang it... was just cruising the forum before I left work for one of the kids basketball game and ran across this. Now I gotta sign in and comment.
I'm one of those "slime ball" insurance agents. My agency was opened by my grandfather and I BOUGHT it off my parents. I've been to bat for my clients on more than one occasion when a company tried to deny coverage on something they should have taken care of. Just like with ANY profession, there are slime balls everywhere. I've got more than one story of someone that lost a home, had cancer, lost a spouse that came to my office and thanked me for helping them make good decisions about the coverages they needed. We don't try to sell people coverage they don't need (Unlike those agents they have sales contest for the companies they represent) We are an independent agency working for a huge list of companies and we work for our customers.
To clarify something that most people don't realize, when you go to one of those Big Name company agents (State Farm, Farmers, Allstate) the agent you deal with works for the company. The company owns the agency and the agent has sales quota's. You're gonna get pushed to buy something you don't need because the agent has a quota. When you visit an independent agent you are dealing with someone that will work for you NOT the company. How kewl is it to have an insurance professional that is working for you and not the company? Well, we'll go to bat for you to make sure your claim is handled appropriately. The Captive Company Guy? He may get in trouble when he stands up for the client because as I said above, he works for the company and not the customer......
Off my soap box now and headed to a 6th grade basketball game. God Bless everyone and Merry Christmas (I'm politically incorrect to the extreme also)

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Mimsy

You are missing the point avb3. It matters not if insurance companies are jerks or not, the financial institution which lent the OP the money for the boat required full coverage for the duration of the loan. The OP agreed to those terms. If he does not like the terms, pay off the lender and carry only liabilty as required by marinas.

Yes.. I did miss that point, and you are correct that if you are under contract, you need to live up to all parts of that agreement.

Now, think we can get insurance companies to live by that?

[avb3]

Originally Posted by NCountry

...I'm one of those "slime ball" insurance agents. ... We don't try to sell people coverage they don't need (Unlike those agents they have sales contest for the companies they represent) We are an independent agency working for a huge list of companies and we work for our customers.
... Well, we'll go to bat for you to make sure your claim is handled appropriately. The Captive Company Guy? He may get in trouble when he stands up for the client because as I said above, he works for the company and not the customer......

NCountry, I know independent insurance agents will go to bat for their clients, but there is a but.

You know as well as I do that your income is not only dependent on your sales, but also your loss ratio.

If it goes over a certain percentage, your agency does not receive its bonus from the insurance company. And you also know as well as I do that the bonus is a significant part of an agencies income.

How many independent agents drop clients after a claim?

You know as well as I do that it happens regularly. The most profitable agencies are those that have good penetration, are good at cross-selling, and have a minimal loss ratio. Correct?

[John A]

As an uninsured singlehandler my boat was struck and drug onto the rocks of Hart's Cut in Trinidad, while at anchor, by a boat registered in Florida by a singlerhandler from the UK. My actions saved not only my boat, but his as well, as he and I were not on our boats at the time of impact. (another story)

The skipper had had his green card cancelled and had been kicked out of the US, but that's another story.

The skipper gave me his brokers e-mail address in Florida. The broker had me submit a claim to a FAX number with an area code in the SF Bay area. A representive from Loyds of London in the UK next contacted me with a phone number of a insurance reprepersentive in Port of Spain (captial of Trinidad). This person became the insurance companies agent and took dispositions from me and a couple of fellow cruisiers. He also gave me permmision to have a survay done and to submit a cost of repairs, from the results of the survey. A month later I received a certified letter agreeing to pay for the cost of the repairs listed in the survey.

The boat was hauled and the repairs completed. I paid for the repairs, the broker from Port of Spain then inspected the boat and I received a document that I was satisfied with the work done and signed and mailed this through snail mail to Loyds.

Two months later the full amount was wire-transfered to my Merriel Lynch account from South Afirca.

Your actual experiencs with insurance claims may be different, but I'm satisfied.